Date: 6/22/2000, 10:25 pm
Much as I admire a culture that kayaked for its own survival, it is doubtful that they possessed the sum-total of all kayak knowledge. The cumulative knowledge of what makes a good kayak is still growing and opinions on what works changes with human experience and advances in technology.
Consider the state of the automobile around the turn of the century (the last century) and the kind of advancements that have been made since. Things like automatic transmissions, power brakes, ABS, electric windows, cruise control, traction control, all-wheel drive, etc. The list goes on and on. Could I drive a Ford Model T? Probably, and with practice I might be able to drive one competently. But I don't dismiss the features of modern cars as evidence of poor design. With the possible exception of the built-in VCR, I consider them advances in design.
That said, I prefer a boat without gizmos. I'm happy to hear of your positive report on the Outer Island. I was fortunate to paddle Jay's boat at last year's Newfound Rendezvous and do plan to build one someday.
Ross
: The Greenlanders designed their kayaks to handle virtually all wind/wave
: conditions without those contraptions. If your kayak is hard to control
: because of the waves, it is probably too wide. If your kayak is hard to
: control because of the wind, the deck is probably too high. The picture of
: the kayak below is probably the most refined modern adaptation of the West
: Greenland kayak, made by Betsie Bay Kayaks using the stitch-and-glue
: process. They've undergone many prototypes since starting as a hobby back
: in 1980. They are 17'x20.5" with flat decks, and all the paddlers I
: know who have these boats claim that they are perfectly neutral in wind
: and waves. And although these are low-volume boats, Star Swift is doing a
: solo circumnavigation in a kayak like the one pictured below.
: I'm not sold on the relatively round-bottomed hull of the Outer Island just
: yet, but on all other counts I give a big thumbs up. I just took it out
: last weekend in 20kt winds with 4' waves, and it handled beautifully. I
: was a bit leery when some breakers came over the deck from the side, but
: managed to not get toppled. The big test for me was when I paddled in
: following seas about 45-deg. off of downwind. I expected to have to do a
: bunch of corrective strokes to keep me pointed toward my goal (a
: breakwater that I launched from behind) but was amazed to find that I
: didn't need to do many at all. My mind wandered as I watched the waves
: around me, and I didn't drift off my heading. At no point did I think,
: 'shoulda added a skeg.'
: Then there is the issue of reliability. Skegs and rudders can get easily
: broken or jammed with sand and can be stuck in a position that's more
: detrimental than helpful. Also, if you have a skeg, you always have some
: extra turbulence there, whether the skeg is deployed or not. Maybe it's
: better to make a corrective stroke on rarer occasions rather than to have
: that extra drag even in calm conditions.
: Dean
Messages In This Thread
- Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 6:26 pm- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 6/26/2000, 10:38 am- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Tig and Tink -- 6/26/2000, 11:45 pm
- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Berkeley C. -- 6/23/2000, 2:26 pm- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Dean Trexel -- 6/23/2000, 3:11 pm- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
RM Dalton -- 6/25/2000, 12:45 am- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Berkeley C. -- 6/23/2000, 6:05 pm- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Dean Trexel -- 6/26/2000, 9:59 am
- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
- Crutches for poor paddlers?
Brian Nystrom -- 6/23/2000, 11:14 am- Re: Crutches for poor paddlers?
bob -- 6/23/2000, 7:44 pm- Re: Crutches for poor paddlers?
Tim Smith -- 6/23/2000, 3:27 pm - Re: Crutches for poor paddlers?
- Sea Kayaker's Greenland Skin on Frame
Lew Crenshaw -- 6/23/2000, 10:43 am- Re: Sea Kayaker's Greenland Skin on Frame
Greg Stamer -- 6/23/2000, 11:31 am- Re: Sea Kayaker's Greenland s&g
Dean Trexel -- 6/23/2000, 11:23 am - Re: Sea Kayaker's Greenland s&g
- design intent
Vernon Lowery -- 6/23/2000, 9:54 am- Is this leading anywhere?
RM Dalton -- 6/23/2000, 10:18 am- Re: Yes (everybody read this)
Shawn B -- 6/23/2000, 2:19 pm
- Re: Yes (everybody read this)
- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Rob Forsell -- 6/23/2000, 9:31 am- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Shawn B -- 6/23/2000, 2:16 pm
- I like my rudder for fishing
davew -- 6/23/2000, 9:07 am- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Edgar Kleindinst -- 6/23/2000, 7:55 am- No Skegs or Rudders, but at what price?
David Dick -- 6/23/2000, 7:26 am- What about my 21' triple?????
Dale Frolander -- 6/23/2000, 3:08 am- Re: That would be a good exception
Shawn B -- 6/23/2000, 2:10 pm
- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Richard Boyle -- 6/23/2000, 1:00 am- Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
Shawn Baker -- 6/23/2000, 1:54 am- Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
Ian Johnston -- 6/23/2000, 2:50 am- Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
Tim Smith -- 6/23/2000, 1:59 pm- Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
Ian Johnston -- 6/24/2000, 1:56 am
- Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
- Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
- Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
- Re: SO DEAN?
Ian Johnston -- 6/22/2000, 8:17 pm- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Tony -- 6/22/2000, 7:44 pm- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
RM Dalton -- 6/22/2000, 11:59 pm
- Re: blasphemy
Ross Leidy -- 6/22/2000, 6:49 pm- Re: rudder=blasphemy to inuit designs *Pic*
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 7:47 pm- Re: rudder=blasphemy to inuit designs
Tig and Tink -- 6/24/2000, 1:48 am- Re: Greenland vs. superior designs???
Mike Hanks -- 6/23/2000, 2:06 am- Re: That's a bit of luddism
Ross Leidy -- 6/22/2000, 10:25 pm- Re: That's a bit of luddism
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 11:22 pm- Model T
Don Bowen -- 6/23/2000, 10:53 am- Re: yep
Ross Leidy -- 6/23/2000, 9:19 am- Re: Advancements.
Ian Johnston -- 6/23/2000, 3:09 am- Re: Advancements.
Tony -- 6/23/2000, 1:57 pm- Patent infringement?
David Dick -- 6/24/2000, 7:51 am- Re: Conspiracy Theories,
Ian Johnston -- 6/24/2000, 2:26 am- Re: Conspiracy Theories,
Tony -- 6/26/2000, 3:13 pm- Way OT, 200 MPG
Don Bowen -- 6/25/2000, 12:05 pm- Re: 200 MPG=Alien Abduction
Ian Johnston -- 6/26/2000, 4:11 am- Three valve per cyl and 40 to 1 fuel to air!
garth -- 7/2/2000, 7:02 pm- Re: You cant say that!
Don Beale -- 6/26/2000, 5:12 pm- Re: You cant say that!
Julie Kanarr -- 6/26/2000, 9:39 pm- Re: You cant say that!
Ian Johnston -- 6/27/2000, 10:35 am
- Re: You cant say that!
- Re: 200 MPG=Alien Abduction
Rehd -- 6/26/2000, 8:57 am- Re: 200 MPG=Alien Abduction
Ian Johnston -- 6/26/2000, 10:45 am- Re: 200 MPG=Alien Abduction
Rehd -- 6/26/2000, 9:50 pm
- Re: 200 MPG=Alien Abduction
- Re: You cant say that!
- Three valve per cyl and 40 to 1 fuel to air!
- Re: Conspiracy Theories, ( O.T. )
Rehd -- 6/24/2000, 1:09 pm- Re: Conspiracy Theories, ( O.T. )
Ian Johnston -- 6/25/2000, 2:45 am
- Way OT, 200 MPG
- Re: Conspiracy Theories,
- Patent infringement?
- Re: That's a bit of luddism
Rehd -- 6/22/2000, 11:44 pm - Re: yep
- Model T
- Re: rudder=blasphemy to inuit designs
Don Price -- 6/22/2000, 8:15 pm- Re: that explains it
lee -- 6/22/2000, 8:10 pm- Re: that explains it
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 8:47 pm- Re: that explains it
Ross Leidy -- 6/23/2000, 9:28 am- Re: that explains it
Dean Trexel -- 6/23/2000, 9:52 am
- Re: that explains it
lee -- 6/22/2000, 10:44 pm - Re: that explains it
- Small Rudder?
mike allen ---> -- 6/22/2000, 8:23 pm- Re: Small Rudder?
lee -- 6/22/2000, 10:30 pm
- Re: that explains it
- Re: Greenland vs. superior designs???
- Re: blasphemy
bob -- 6/22/2000, 7:33 pm- Re: blasphemy
Greg -- 6/22/2000, 8:15 pm- Re: blasphemy
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 9:02 pm- Re: blasphemy
Greg -- 6/23/2000, 12:18 am
- Re: blasphemy
- Re: blasphemy
- Re: rudder=blasphemy to inuit designs
- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
- Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant