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Re: Greenland vs. superior designs???
By:Mike Hanks
Date: 6/23/2000, 2:06 am
In Response To: Re: rudder=blasphemy to inuit designs *Pic* (Dean Trexel)

Dean,

You left out the Aleuts! Better not let George Dyson, Wolfgang Brink, Skip Snaith, and the likes here you. They like their round bottom kayaks with a shallow 'V'. The article in Scientific American hardly mentioned Greenland kayaks, but said that the traditional Baidarka was "THE kayak".

Mike (who is building a 18'x20" West Greenland skin on frame kayak) ;-)

: The Greenlanders designed their kayaks to handle virtually all wind/wave
: conditions without those contraptions. If your kayak is hard to control
: because of the waves, it is probably too wide. If your kayak is hard to
: control because of the wind, the deck is probably too high. The picture of
: the kayak below is probably the most refined modern adaptation of the West
: Greenland kayak, made by Betsie Bay Kayaks using the stitch-and-glue
: process. They've undergone many prototypes since starting as a hobby back
: in 1980. They are 17'x20.5" with flat decks, and all the paddlers I
: know who have these boats claim that they are perfectly neutral in wind
: and waves. And although these are low-volume boats, Star Swift is doing a
: solo circumnavigation in a kayak like the one pictured below.

: I'm not sold on the relatively round-bottomed hull of the Outer Island just
: yet, but on all other counts I give a big thumbs up. I just took it out
: last weekend in 20kt winds with 4' waves, and it handled beautifully. I
: was a bit leery when some breakers came over the deck from the side, but
: managed to not get toppled. The big test for me was when I paddled in
: following seas about 45-deg. off of downwind. I expected to have to do a
: bunch of corrective strokes to keep me pointed toward my goal (a
: breakwater that I launched from behind) but was amazed to find that I
: didn't need to do many at all. My mind wandered as I watched the waves
: around me, and I didn't drift off my heading. At no point did I think,
: 'shoulda added a skeg.'

: Then there is the issue of reliability. Skegs and rudders can get easily
: broken or jammed with sand and can be stuck in a position that's more
: detrimental than helpful. Also, if you have a skeg, you always have some
: extra turbulence there, whether the skeg is deployed or not. Maybe it's
: better to make a corrective stroke on rarer occasions rather than to have
: that extra drag even in calm conditions.

: Dean

Messages In This Thread

Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 6:26 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 6/26/2000, 10:38 am
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Tig and Tink -- 6/26/2000, 11:45 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Berkeley C. -- 6/23/2000, 2:26 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Dean Trexel -- 6/23/2000, 3:11 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
RM Dalton -- 6/25/2000, 12:45 am
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Berkeley C. -- 6/23/2000, 6:05 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Dean Trexel -- 6/26/2000, 9:59 am
Crutches for poor paddlers?
Brian Nystrom -- 6/23/2000, 11:14 am
Re: Crutches for poor paddlers?
bob -- 6/23/2000, 7:44 pm
Re: Crutches for poor paddlers?
Tim Smith -- 6/23/2000, 3:27 pm
Sea Kayaker's Greenland Skin on Frame
Lew Crenshaw -- 6/23/2000, 10:43 am
Re: Sea Kayaker's Greenland Skin on Frame
Greg Stamer -- 6/23/2000, 11:31 am
Re: Sea Kayaker's Greenland s&g
Dean Trexel -- 6/23/2000, 11:23 am
design intent
Vernon Lowery -- 6/23/2000, 9:54 am
Is this leading anywhere?
RM Dalton -- 6/23/2000, 10:18 am
Re: Yes (everybody read this)
Shawn B -- 6/23/2000, 2:19 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Rob Forsell -- 6/23/2000, 9:31 am
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Shawn B -- 6/23/2000, 2:16 pm
I like my rudder for fishing
davew -- 6/23/2000, 9:07 am
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Edgar Kleindinst -- 6/23/2000, 7:55 am
No Skegs or Rudders, but at what price?
David Dick -- 6/23/2000, 7:26 am
What about my 21' triple?????
Dale Frolander -- 6/23/2000, 3:08 am
Re: That would be a good exception
Shawn B -- 6/23/2000, 2:10 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Richard Boyle -- 6/23/2000, 1:00 am
Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
Shawn Baker -- 6/23/2000, 1:54 am
Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
Ian Johnston -- 6/23/2000, 2:50 am
Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
Tim Smith -- 6/23/2000, 1:59 pm
Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
Ian Johnston -- 6/24/2000, 1:56 am
Re: SO DEAN?
Ian Johnston -- 6/22/2000, 8:17 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Tony -- 6/22/2000, 7:44 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
RM Dalton -- 6/22/2000, 11:59 pm
Re: blasphemy
Ross Leidy -- 6/22/2000, 6:49 pm
Re: rudder=blasphemy to inuit designs *Pic*
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 7:47 pm
Re: rudder=blasphemy to inuit designs
Tig and Tink -- 6/24/2000, 1:48 am
Re: Greenland vs. superior designs???
Mike Hanks -- 6/23/2000, 2:06 am
Re: That's a bit of luddism
Ross Leidy -- 6/22/2000, 10:25 pm
Re: That's a bit of luddism
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 11:22 pm
Model T
Don Bowen -- 6/23/2000, 10:53 am
Re: yep
Ross Leidy -- 6/23/2000, 9:19 am
Re: Advancements.
Ian Johnston -- 6/23/2000, 3:09 am
Re: Advancements.
Tony -- 6/23/2000, 1:57 pm
Patent infringement?
David Dick -- 6/24/2000, 7:51 am
Re: Conspiracy Theories,
Ian Johnston -- 6/24/2000, 2:26 am
Re: Conspiracy Theories,
Tony -- 6/26/2000, 3:13 pm
Way OT, 200 MPG
Don Bowen -- 6/25/2000, 12:05 pm
Re: 200 MPG=Alien Abduction
Ian Johnston -- 6/26/2000, 4:11 am
Three valve per cyl and 40 to 1 fuel to air!
garth -- 7/2/2000, 7:02 pm
Re: You cant say that!
Don Beale -- 6/26/2000, 5:12 pm
Re: You cant say that!
Julie Kanarr -- 6/26/2000, 9:39 pm
Re: You cant say that!
Ian Johnston -- 6/27/2000, 10:35 am
Re: 200 MPG=Alien Abduction
Rehd -- 6/26/2000, 8:57 am
Re: 200 MPG=Alien Abduction
Ian Johnston -- 6/26/2000, 10:45 am
Re: 200 MPG=Alien Abduction
Rehd -- 6/26/2000, 9:50 pm
Re: Conspiracy Theories, ( O.T. )
Rehd -- 6/24/2000, 1:09 pm
Re: Conspiracy Theories, ( O.T. )
Ian Johnston -- 6/25/2000, 2:45 am
Re: That's a bit of luddism
Rehd -- 6/22/2000, 11:44 pm
Re: rudder=blasphemy to inuit designs
Don Price -- 6/22/2000, 8:15 pm
Re: that explains it
lee -- 6/22/2000, 8:10 pm
Re: that explains it
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 8:47 pm
Re: that explains it
Ross Leidy -- 6/23/2000, 9:28 am
Re: that explains it
Dean Trexel -- 6/23/2000, 9:52 am
Re: that explains it
lee -- 6/22/2000, 10:44 pm
Small Rudder?
mike allen ---> -- 6/22/2000, 8:23 pm
Re: Small Rudder?
lee -- 6/22/2000, 10:30 pm
Re: blasphemy
bob -- 6/22/2000, 7:33 pm
Re: blasphemy
Greg -- 6/22/2000, 8:15 pm
Re: blasphemy
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 9:02 pm
Re: blasphemy
Greg -- 6/23/2000, 12:18 am