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Re: Crutches for poor paddlers?
By:bob
Date: 6/23/2000, 7:44 pm
In Response To: Crutches for poor paddlers? (Brian Nystrom)

: I take exception to this statement. There are plenty of well designed boats
: that incorportate rudders or skegs. Doubles and triples pretty much
: require rudders.

: A well designed single with a skeg can be trimmed to handle many wind/wave
: conditions by varying the depth of the skeg. It can still track well and
: be responsive to leaned turns and corrective strokes. Such a boat is a
: very intelligent design, in my opinion. I think of a skeg as a "trim
: tab" and use it as such.

: Therein lies the problem. Most of the people I see paddling rudder equipped
: boats have the rudders down all the time. Rather than using the rudder for
: course corrections only under difficult conditions (as they are intended
: to be used), they use them for steering. They are substituting the rudder
: for learning proper paddle strokes and leaning/edging techniques. This is
: bad, as it puts the paddler in the situation of being dependent on the
: rudder. If it fails under difficult conditions, they're screwed. This is
: probably why people who consider themselves "serious" paddlers
: often eschew rudders.

: On the other hand, there are a lot of people who just want to get into a boat
: and paddle for a while. They don't care about learning advanced strokes
: and don't paddle in difficult conditions, they just want to have fun and
: get a bit of exercise. If you get in a boat and go out in perfect conditions often enough the day will come when the perfect day becomes a nightmare beyond anything you've imagined. at this point you had better have your boat handling skills togeather LEARN TO PADDLE and handle your boat then consider a rudder and use a boat that does not need one, regardless of conditions..

I see it as similar to the debate over manual vs.
: automatic cameras. I prefer a manual camera, as I like the control it
: gives me. It also forced me to learn to understand lighting and exposure.
: However, most people simply want to take pictures and really don't care
: how the camera works or why. Perhaps their results are not as good, but
: they're good enough to meet their expectations, which is really the bottom
: line. On the other hand, a skilled photographer can produce stunning
: images with either type of camera. The same is true of paddlers and
: kayaks.

: My camera does have a built in meter and the lenses have automatic diaphrams.
: These are conveniences that don't take anything away from the creative
: process. I view a skeg in much the same terms. It's a convenience under
: certain conditions, but it doesn't prevent me from learning advanced
: paddle strokes, leans and other boat control techniques, or make them
: unnecessary. There is no significant downside to a skeg, as the boat
: handles fine with it up or down. People speculate about jams, but has
: anyone ever actually experienced one?

: I don't see any need for the added complexity of a rudder on a single kayak
: since a skeg is sufficient, so I don't use them and won't buy a boat that
: has one. Perhaps some people have a real need for a rudder. If so, that
: doesn't automatically mean that their boat is poorly designed or that
: they're lazy; it just means that their needs are different than mine.

Messages In This Thread

Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 6:26 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 6/26/2000, 10:38 am
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Tig and Tink -- 6/26/2000, 11:45 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Berkeley C. -- 6/23/2000, 2:26 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Dean Trexel -- 6/23/2000, 3:11 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
RM Dalton -- 6/25/2000, 12:45 am
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Berkeley C. -- 6/23/2000, 6:05 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Dean Trexel -- 6/26/2000, 9:59 am
Crutches for poor paddlers?
Brian Nystrom -- 6/23/2000, 11:14 am
Re: Crutches for poor paddlers?
bob -- 6/23/2000, 7:44 pm
Re: Crutches for poor paddlers?
Tim Smith -- 6/23/2000, 3:27 pm
Sea Kayaker's Greenland Skin on Frame
Lew Crenshaw -- 6/23/2000, 10:43 am
Re: Sea Kayaker's Greenland Skin on Frame
Greg Stamer -- 6/23/2000, 11:31 am
Re: Sea Kayaker's Greenland s&g
Dean Trexel -- 6/23/2000, 11:23 am
design intent
Vernon Lowery -- 6/23/2000, 9:54 am
Is this leading anywhere?
RM Dalton -- 6/23/2000, 10:18 am
Re: Yes (everybody read this)
Shawn B -- 6/23/2000, 2:19 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Rob Forsell -- 6/23/2000, 9:31 am
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Shawn B -- 6/23/2000, 2:16 pm
I like my rudder for fishing
davew -- 6/23/2000, 9:07 am
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Edgar Kleindinst -- 6/23/2000, 7:55 am
No Skegs or Rudders, but at what price?
David Dick -- 6/23/2000, 7:26 am
What about my 21' triple?????
Dale Frolander -- 6/23/2000, 3:08 am
Re: That would be a good exception
Shawn B -- 6/23/2000, 2:10 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Richard Boyle -- 6/23/2000, 1:00 am
Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
Shawn Baker -- 6/23/2000, 1:54 am
Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
Ian Johnston -- 6/23/2000, 2:50 am
Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
Tim Smith -- 6/23/2000, 1:59 pm
Re: NA vs. AU Rudders
Ian Johnston -- 6/24/2000, 1:56 am
Re: SO DEAN?
Ian Johnston -- 6/22/2000, 8:17 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
Tony -- 6/22/2000, 7:44 pm
Re: Skegs & Rudders: a very short rant
RM Dalton -- 6/22/2000, 11:59 pm
Re: blasphemy
Ross Leidy -- 6/22/2000, 6:49 pm
Re: rudder=blasphemy to inuit designs *Pic*
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 7:47 pm
Re: rudder=blasphemy to inuit designs
Tig and Tink -- 6/24/2000, 1:48 am
Re: Greenland vs. superior designs???
Mike Hanks -- 6/23/2000, 2:06 am
Re: That's a bit of luddism
Ross Leidy -- 6/22/2000, 10:25 pm
Re: That's a bit of luddism
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 11:22 pm
Model T
Don Bowen -- 6/23/2000, 10:53 am
Re: yep
Ross Leidy -- 6/23/2000, 9:19 am
Re: Advancements.
Ian Johnston -- 6/23/2000, 3:09 am
Re: Advancements.
Tony -- 6/23/2000, 1:57 pm
Patent infringement?
David Dick -- 6/24/2000, 7:51 am
Re: Conspiracy Theories,
Ian Johnston -- 6/24/2000, 2:26 am
Re: Conspiracy Theories,
Tony -- 6/26/2000, 3:13 pm
Way OT, 200 MPG
Don Bowen -- 6/25/2000, 12:05 pm
Re: 200 MPG=Alien Abduction
Ian Johnston -- 6/26/2000, 4:11 am
Three valve per cyl and 40 to 1 fuel to air!
garth -- 7/2/2000, 7:02 pm
Re: You cant say that!
Don Beale -- 6/26/2000, 5:12 pm
Re: You cant say that!
Julie Kanarr -- 6/26/2000, 9:39 pm
Re: You cant say that!
Ian Johnston -- 6/27/2000, 10:35 am
Re: 200 MPG=Alien Abduction
Rehd -- 6/26/2000, 8:57 am
Re: 200 MPG=Alien Abduction
Ian Johnston -- 6/26/2000, 10:45 am
Re: 200 MPG=Alien Abduction
Rehd -- 6/26/2000, 9:50 pm
Re: Conspiracy Theories, ( O.T. )
Rehd -- 6/24/2000, 1:09 pm
Re: Conspiracy Theories, ( O.T. )
Ian Johnston -- 6/25/2000, 2:45 am
Re: That's a bit of luddism
Rehd -- 6/22/2000, 11:44 pm
Re: rudder=blasphemy to inuit designs
Don Price -- 6/22/2000, 8:15 pm
Re: that explains it
lee -- 6/22/2000, 8:10 pm
Re: that explains it
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 8:47 pm
Re: that explains it
Ross Leidy -- 6/23/2000, 9:28 am
Re: that explains it
Dean Trexel -- 6/23/2000, 9:52 am
Re: that explains it
lee -- 6/22/2000, 10:44 pm
Small Rudder?
mike allen ---> -- 6/22/2000, 8:23 pm
Re: Small Rudder?
lee -- 6/22/2000, 10:30 pm
Re: blasphemy
bob -- 6/22/2000, 7:33 pm
Re: blasphemy
Greg -- 6/22/2000, 8:15 pm
Re: blasphemy
Dean Trexel -- 6/22/2000, 9:02 pm
Re: blasphemy
Greg -- 6/23/2000, 12:18 am