Kelly,
I accept your apology and affirm your explanation. I hope you and the rest
of this BBS will accept mine. By way of understanding: I strongly object when
folks on this board inject hostility on to a place of pleasant exchange on
what is a hobby. I 'm afraid I have broken my own code of conduct on this.
Please accept my apology. Sometimes two people enter a room eat a bowl of
chili and when they leave the whole place smells a little worse then when they
first entered. It is my sense that Kelly and I together cooked up a real
great bowl of hot stuff sat down with spoons in hand and forgot to leave
the door open. Alternate use for a dust octopus, might be to clear the air.
In any case, I should have left my chili peppres at home.

In my case, I have been walking boards with sick kids for a week only to
land in a chair in front of my computer with the creeping crud myself. Look
like poop feel like poop act like... At the same time, the psych case who
hacked up the kindergarten (in the news) did so in my home town injuring
family friends. So I sort of came to the other day feeling tired, angry
and defensive. As a student of diplomacy and a former professional mediator
I already know that's not a recipe for success. In any case, I read your
first post with brows already furled. Thats not an excuse that's an
expaliantion served up with my apology.

Kelly, I'm not going to back away from the principals behind the things I
said, but I sure as heck could have said it with out the hard edge. Jumping
in with both boots is one thing, dancing on someone's head with one's
clodhoppers on is another. At the very least I could have posted something
slightly more legible and literate. Hard to write when one's eyes are
crossed, and that probably should have been my first clue.

In any case, last night my friends grabbed me for a Norsky cool down session.
A couple of miles of snow shoeing, Then tossed me in a sauna and poured hot water over me. Seems I did better then the hot rocks; I steamed up that room
real well, I did. (Anyone want some strips bent) However, after tossing me in
a snow bank a few times I started to chill out a bit. After a good nights
sleep I'm feeling a whole lot better. So lets try again.

OK Kelly, you have nicely knocked this one down to a disagreement about syntax
and miscommunication. I can go there.

I think we disagree what a complete plan and a detailed plan is. Mike I
think said it best. The pro's have done a nice job of providing a set of graduated solutions: the 6 dollar solution, the 20 dollar solution, the 100
dollar solution, the 500 dollar solution, the 1000 dollar solution and so on.
Pick what you can afford ,and the bottom line is always a beautiful very functional, make your paddle buddies green with envy,... boat. In the end, I think we are responsible for seeing to it that the books we buy are offering
us what we want. Not the author. His or her job is to write the best copy
they think is needed to get the boat out of your dreams and under your buns.
I disagree that there is a hint of false advertising when a book sells a
complete plan that is in a format that requires lofting. That book gives
you everything you need to build a complete boat. To me a complete set of
plans is two pages of offsets. To me Offsets are the details. They are the
end less data point details to a very complex 3 dimensional set of curves,
and in boat building that is, in my opinion, a detailed plan. Complete
instructions are usually a page or two more. If I want more then that, I expect to pay for cut outs (blue prints). If I want even more detailed
how-too's I buy the book. To me" pregnant ", "dead" and "complete plans"
are simply a complete set of plans. Each describes a starting point from
which to build. Building on those details is a whole 'nother matter. In
any case, before I drop my quarters on the bar. I make sure I'm getting
what I need. Kelly stated a little more diplomatically, I don't see the deception you see. More to the point I think to promote a sense of
victimization on this, is to my set of givens, not well founded. On what constitutes a "complete plan" I think we can probobly agree to disagree.

Having said all of that I think it wise for us to remember that individually
and collectively, we are getting an incredible deal for a few or in some cases
no dollars. I think that its wise to lead then with a sense of gratitude, and
avoid implications of deception.

OK while I am cleaning up messes. George Roberts this is one of those case
where I think you said it better. "I appreciate..." And I think you
punctuated well. I think we could all find it in our shops to say that
more often. George, I wasn't trying to imply that you and your peers as a
businessmen are a fool or a saps. Every business has its trade secrets that
give it the capitalist edge. Those are the page 19 things that keep people
paid enough to keep doing what they do. I think your wise to protect your
profitability. At the same time, your posts continue to drop a lot of
distilled, concrete information that others haven't found yet. OK I hear
that it is your sense that your posts rehash information easily available in
other sources. However, just because you didn't invent it doesn't mean that by passing it on, your not giving someone a gift. So let me use your example and
wording; George, "I appreciate" the information you pass on in this board. Having said that sometimes I wish it came more diplomatically, (and today that
is surely pot calling kettle black) but I sure as heck do appreciate it.
Your posts have changed some of my SOP's in my own shop, and has added depth
to my understanding, that means better boats and that's something I surely
appreciate. Thank you.

Spidey, Wise call. Diplomatic suggestion: Lets not open another can of worms, even as we close this one trying to figure out the definition of who is a "regular" and who isn't. Lets leave the welcome mat ungraded.

OK folks this food fight is over lets get back to our off sets, blue prints, kits and to building our boats!

!RUSS