To those whose backround is other than furniture making, cabinetry, etc., a good resouce for this type of info is *The Woodworker's Guide to Furniture Design* by Garth Graves.

Also, to those having problems with feet and toes falling asleep, I recently spent two months in the hospital paralized from the waist down due to Guillain-Barre' Syndrome. Something I found out in my now three month long journey into learning to walk again, you will help eliminate those problems by extending the support of the seat out under the thighs as far as you can. Whether this helps in kayaks with healthy padders, I can't say for sure though I will surely find out this summer. Tom

: Hi All

: I was out at David Barrett's shop this past week and took a few photos, and
: appartently started a flame war over proper resporator use/non use and so
: on. Well, it was explained why this was done and that in fact, some safety
: concerns were taken and I don't feel that My or David's health were
: endangered by this. I will make every effort to take only pictures that
: show total concern for safety, for those who are enraged by our apparent
: disregard for such concerns, in the future. My appologies for my apparent
: lack of sensitivity. :P

: However.... that is not why I'm making this posting. As I looked through the
: stack of pictures it came to my attention that there was another concern,
: probably "non-lethal" this time, that we had casually discussed
: in his shop that evening. This topic has come up many times, and just as
: many options have been discussed in order to alleviate the problem. Well,
: with my background in cabinet making and furniture making something came
: to mind that may also aid in comfort in seating and seat arrangement for
: the benefit of comfort and proper posture. I'll throw it out here and see
: if you have any ideas, or if it has been discussed before, then maybe it's
: time for a rehash for the benefit of the new folks looking in.

: During my years as a cabinet/furniture maker I had the opportunity to build
: several style benches, booths and chairs and in most all of these
: instances there was an industry standard that I/we followed in nearly all
: our products and projects. I don't know if these figures were
: scientifically figured out, or just the product of much testing in actual
: use over the years.

: On the seats, there is almost always a 3* decline towards the rear of the
: seat and an approximate 7* tilt back used for the back-rest. Over the
: years I have seen it used in many products and also set in some texts as
: an "industry standard."

: During some of David's shop activities that evening he was puting the seat
: into one of his canoes and, at first; I wondered if he had in fact
: adjusted them to the "proper" settings, and then wondered IF
: there were any proper settings that would be common to all boats. I asked
: him if he had the proper angles on them and his reply was that this was
: the setting he had used for many years and that it was most comfortable to
: him and he continues to use it to this day. I sparked David's curiousity I
: suppose, as he produced a guage to check the angles himself, officially,
: and see if I was correct or just blowing steam. I myself was very curious
: at this time as well.

: David first checked the hull for level and we had to do some adjusting of one
: of the stands to achieve this goal. Once done, we double checked inside
: again and had the zero reading we wanted. Then, we put the guage on the
: seat and checked it out. We came up with a reading of 3 *, right on the
: button. So, now we're both very interested and had to check the back-rest
: for sure. It checked out at a respectable 7 1/2* or just slightly higher.
: So, he was actually in the ball park with what he, over several years, had
: decided was the most comfortable possition for his canoe seats.

: Here's my query: Many times over the past year and a half, I have seen
: repeated problems come up involving the seats used in these canoes and
: kayaks. The solutions have ranged from: adding foam or something to the
: front of the seats, to form-fitting fiberglass seats and finally carved
: foam seats to fit the particular behind being set in it at that moment.
: Have any of you actually set the angle of the seat bottom and back rest to
: a particular angle, or have you just guessed at the angles and worked on
: it 'til you came up with whatever is comfortable to you personally? And,
: could any of you do a check of your seat configuration to assertain the
: particular angles you are using and offer some comments as to satisfaction
: or dis-satisfaction in where they are located and at what angles? Also,
: some of you who are having any problems with your seats, ie; legs falling
: asleep and/or aching, or back discomfort, could you do likewise and see if
: possibly the seat and backrest angles are in the "proper" (?)
: perspective, as described in the furniture building books as being best
: for proper posture and comfort? Just a curiousity of mine, and prossibly a
: cure for some of the problems you and I have had in the past with our seat
: arrangements. I would be very interested in seeing the variations from
: different folks and how it compares to the uses of these angles on
: standard furniture.

: In the photos provided, David is checking all three angles; hull, seat and
: back rest, and his idea of best comfort just happened to be very close to
: what I had told him was used in most furniture available today.

: Thanks to any and all of you who take the time to check on this. Maybe it
: could/would be something we could use as a standard in the future. I say
: this because I have not heard of any particular " Rule of Thumb
: " that has been used by anyone on the KBB as of the past 2 years.
: Thanks again for your help!

: Rehd