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Re: What is art?
By:Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks
Date: 5/2/2001, 6:12 pm
In Response To: Re: Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK? (Rob Macks)

: Don't use the term "art" unless your meaning is limited to a
: useless object meant for decoration, (see listing for "sofa sized
: painting"). Believe me these objects fit no other definition of the
: term "Art" which usually includes some kind of expression of an
: idea.

"Art" is completely in the eye of the beholder. I don't think large prints of soup cans, or glass tanks containing pickled animals are art, but some people do. I think a box full of tools can be art, but most people don't. I wouldn't pay much beyond the cost of materials plus minimum wage for a stretched piece of canvas paint blue, but some people will pay much more.

I guess this makes me unqualified to comment on the "art" value of a canoe, but one thing I am sure of is the monetary value of any object is exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. No more, no less.

If I were to suggest an almost sure fire definition of "art" it would be "Any object for which a customer is willing to pay more than the materials and labor to create the object are intrinsically worth." Just about any "art" object in a museum today would meet that definition, even if it fails to convey some idea or even look nice. No artist can be called a success until they are able to earn a profit on the sale of their art. Unfortunately, achieving this standard of success does not depend exclusively on the aesthetic sense, ability to convey an idea or craftsmanship of the "artist".

Most of the builders on this board strive at some level to make a boat which is something more than just a boat. At some level we want to instill something "artistic" into the boats we make. Most of these efforts require more effort than the bare minimun neccessary to make a functional boat. We do this by selecting different woods, arranging it in patterns, striving for tighter joints, smoother surfaces, and generally putting more care into every step of the process than is strictly neccessary.

At what point does the result transend the boundary from boat to "art". Is it possible? Does the effort have any value? Why don't we just by the cheapest wood available, hold it to forms with sheetrock screws and then paint it grey?

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Phil's implentation, is what he is striving to accomplish (making boats that will qualify as art) worthwhile?

Messages In This Thread

Where is....
Joel -- 4/30/2001, 10:21 pm
Wow, this is way out of control
Dale Frolander -- 5/3/2001, 9:58 pm
Re: Hey, this is the Builder's Forum
Geo. Cushing -- 5/4/2001, 5:29 pm
Uh, I didn't start this thread here. *NM*
Dale Frolander -- 5/4/2001, 9:41 pm
Re: all this.....
daren neufeld -- 5/3/2001, 9:00 pm
Re: all this.....
Liz Leedham -- 5/4/2001, 8:44 am
Re: most likely... *Pic*
Ross Leidy -- 4/30/2001, 10:47 pm
Re: most likely...
Jeff Fine -- 5/1/2001, 3:24 pm
The Emperor's new canoe
Rob Macks -- 5/2/2001, 9:34 am
Re: Intolerance?
Spidey -- 5/3/2001, 10:03 pm
Call me Mr. Asshole
Rob Macks -- 5/4/2001, 12:13 pm
Re: Call me anything but call me
Lee Gardner -- 5/4/2001, 3:04 pm
Re: The Emperor's (beautiful) new canoe
edgar -- 5/3/2001, 10:52 am
Form vs. function, Or more uses for canoes
Paul G. Jacobson -- 5/2/2001, 4:09 pm
Re: Form vs. function, Or more uses for canoes
Lee Gardner -- 5/2/2001, 4:34 pm
my two cents...from the cheap seats
brett (the hitman hart)onnink -- 5/2/2001, 9:38 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe
Jeff Fine -- 5/2/2001, 3:43 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe
Rob Macks -- 5/2/2001, 4:37 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Charley Dean -- 5/2/2001, 9:01 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Rob Macks -- 5/3/2001, 8:26 am
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Charley Dean -- 5/3/2001, 10:51 am
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Charley Dean -- 5/3/2001, 10:50 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/3/2001, 9:10 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Rob Macks -- 5/3/2001, 10:34 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/3/2001, 7:09 pm
Re: How much is Too Much?
Jason Koldewijn -- 5/3/2001, 11:03 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Rob Macks -- 5/3/2001, 11:20 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Jason Koldewijn -- 5/3/2001, 11:30 am
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Jim Pace -- 5/2/2001, 10:00 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Charley Dean -- 5/3/2001, 5:44 am
Re: The Emperor's new canoe
Jim -- 5/2/2001, 2:22 pm
Re: Bookshelves?
Geo. Cushing -- 5/2/2001, 1:03 pm
Re: OT#489
Lee Gardner -- 5/2/2001, 12:49 pm
Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK?
Brian Nystrom -- 5/2/2001, 12:45 pm
Re: Hey Brian OT
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 10:16 am
Sure, why not?
Brian Nystrom -- 5/3/2001, 12:04 pm
Re: Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK?
Rob Macks -- 5/2/2001, 3:02 pm
Re: I found it.......
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 4:59 pm
Since I'm much closer to being...
Brian Nystrom -- 5/3/2001, 11:54 am
What's wrong with gas guzzling SUV's *NM*
Dale Frolander -- 5/3/2001, 5:06 am
Re:I miss my Trooper (OT,no kidding)
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 10:02 am
is it provocative?
mike allen ---> -- 5/2/2001, 7:42 pm
put "won't" before the expletive *NM*
mike allen ---> -- 5/2/2001, 7:47 pm
intended provocation
mike allen ---> -- 5/3/2001, 2:22 pm
Re: I'll bite
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 4:00 pm
Re: I'll bite
mike allen ---> -- 5/3/2001, 5:11 pm
Re: I'll bite
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 5:39 pm
Re: I'll bite
mike allen ---> -- 5/3/2001, 5:55 pm
Re: I'll bite
Lee Gardner -- 5/4/2001, 12:04 am
Re: Very nicely put Mike *NM*
Ben Staley -- 5/3/2001, 5:25 pm
Re: What is art?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/2/2001, 6:12 pm
EVERYONE is qualified.
Paul -- 5/8/2001, 11:02 pm
Re: What is art?
Jim Pace -- 5/2/2001, 7:14 pm
Re: What is art?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/3/2001, 10:01 am
Re: What is art?
Jim Pace -- 5/3/2001, 4:08 pm
Re: What is art?
Rob Macks -- 5/3/2001, 11:03 am
Re: What is art?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/4/2001, 11:34 am
Re: What it is.
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 3:48 pm
Re:eternal verities
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 10:11 am
Re: worthwhile?
Lee Gardner -- 5/2/2001, 6:43 pm
Re: worthwhile?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/3/2001, 10:16 am
Re: worthwhile?
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 10:33 am
Re: What is marketing?
Shawn Baker -- 5/2/2001, 6:30 pm
Re: Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK?
Jason Koldewijn -- 5/2/2001, 4:12 pm
Re: Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK?
Lee Gardner -- 5/2/2001, 3:58 pm
Re:relax: Craftmanship does = seamanship
Tony -- 5/2/2001, 3:17 pm
Re:relax: Craftmanship doesn't = seamanship
Tony -- 5/3/2001, 1:02 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, right on!
Tony -- 5/2/2001, 12:27 pm
Re: most likely...
peter czerpak -- 5/1/2001, 3:18 pm
Wow.
Jim Eisenmenger -- 5/1/2001, 7:29 am
Re: Wow.
Rob Macks -- 5/1/2001, 8:16 am
Re: Wow.
Arthur -- 5/4/2001, 8:55 pm
Re: Wow.
david -- 5/1/2001, 10:41 am
Re: Wow.
Rob Forsell -- 5/1/2001, 3:27 pm
According to the builder...
Brian Nystrom -- 5/1/2001, 12:32 pm
A fair price
Ed K. -- 5/1/2001, 2:24 pm