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is it provocative?
By:mike allen --->
Date: 5/2/2001, 7:42 pm
In Response To: Re: Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK? (Rob Macks)

so what is this??

-is it craftmanship?
-is it craftmanship of boatbuilding?
-is it design?
-is it art?
-is it us?
-is it provocative?
-is it art?

I certainly see craftsmanship.

Other than shape and layout i don't think it's craftsmanship of boatbuilding - no balance, doesn't look true.

although no large scale design, i see much detail design input on all fittings, seats, inwales, decks, thwarts. there is an attempt here to deal with everything and in a different way. (my personal assessment is that all the detailing is heavy (visually) and possibly inappropriate to the function,) but the absolute point is that he has looked at and considered and reacted to many things.

is it art? is it something aesthetic or meaningful performed/made by skill and imagination. well, in a way its like a high priced whore who fxck after being paid, but there are aesthetics, skill yes but maybe innappropriate, and some imagination but maybe inappropriate too, but imagination nonetheless.

maybe to be inbued with more meaning, the canoe should be chainsawed in half, grafted on to half the coleman and that being hung on the wall(call it 'transitions' or some other hokey). Or the canoe stand being constructed from the detritus of the destroyed rainforest. or the canoe growing and forming out of a tree trunk.

so is it us?? well it sure is. well all try to do something better w/ the materials we have. As soon as any of us put in decorative curved strips, as soon as we put in a pattern change, as soon as we put in a disjunctive bow, we have reduced the effective strength to 1/5 of before (to that of sam's cross grain) and then we are in the regions of playing at the craft of boatbuilding and of following phils path. we also only hope it won't really matter and the usual amount of glass will help us out

is it provocative? I think it is. we question our motives, our approaches, our reasons, and we can see the inconsistencies of our statements and designs.

so is it now art? does it now have meaning? are you thinking? does it apply to me or you? why do me/you have gloss on your/my deck?? why do i have decorative strips crossing others? does my canoe seat have to look like everyone elses??

do any whores have a heart of gold?

-mick

Messages In This Thread

Where is....
Joel -- 4/30/2001, 10:21 pm
Wow, this is way out of control
Dale Frolander -- 5/3/2001, 9:58 pm
Re: Hey, this is the Builder's Forum
Geo. Cushing -- 5/4/2001, 5:29 pm
Uh, I didn't start this thread here. *NM*
Dale Frolander -- 5/4/2001, 9:41 pm
Re: all this.....
daren neufeld -- 5/3/2001, 9:00 pm
Re: all this.....
Liz Leedham -- 5/4/2001, 8:44 am
Re: most likely... *Pic*
Ross Leidy -- 4/30/2001, 10:47 pm
Re: most likely...
Jeff Fine -- 5/1/2001, 3:24 pm
The Emperor's new canoe
Rob Macks -- 5/2/2001, 9:34 am
Re: Intolerance?
Spidey -- 5/3/2001, 10:03 pm
Call me Mr. Asshole
Rob Macks -- 5/4/2001, 12:13 pm
Re: Call me anything but call me
Lee Gardner -- 5/4/2001, 3:04 pm
Re: The Emperor's (beautiful) new canoe
edgar -- 5/3/2001, 10:52 am
Form vs. function, Or more uses for canoes
Paul G. Jacobson -- 5/2/2001, 4:09 pm
Re: Form vs. function, Or more uses for canoes
Lee Gardner -- 5/2/2001, 4:34 pm
my two cents...from the cheap seats
brett (the hitman hart)onnink -- 5/2/2001, 9:38 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe
Jeff Fine -- 5/2/2001, 3:43 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe
Rob Macks -- 5/2/2001, 4:37 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Charley Dean -- 5/2/2001, 9:01 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Rob Macks -- 5/3/2001, 8:26 am
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Charley Dean -- 5/3/2001, 10:51 am
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Charley Dean -- 5/3/2001, 10:50 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/3/2001, 9:10 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Rob Macks -- 5/3/2001, 10:34 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/3/2001, 7:09 pm
Re: How much is Too Much?
Jason Koldewijn -- 5/3/2001, 11:03 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Rob Macks -- 5/3/2001, 11:20 am
Re: How much is Too Much?
Jason Koldewijn -- 5/3/2001, 11:30 am
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Jim Pace -- 5/2/2001, 10:00 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, my response
Charley Dean -- 5/3/2001, 5:44 am
Re: The Emperor's new canoe
Jim -- 5/2/2001, 2:22 pm
Re: Bookshelves?
Geo. Cushing -- 5/2/2001, 1:03 pm
Re: OT#489
Lee Gardner -- 5/2/2001, 12:49 pm
Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK?
Brian Nystrom -- 5/2/2001, 12:45 pm
Re: Hey Brian OT
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 10:16 am
Sure, why not?
Brian Nystrom -- 5/3/2001, 12:04 pm
Re: Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK?
Rob Macks -- 5/2/2001, 3:02 pm
Re: I found it.......
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 4:59 pm
Since I'm much closer to being...
Brian Nystrom -- 5/3/2001, 11:54 am
What's wrong with gas guzzling SUV's *NM*
Dale Frolander -- 5/3/2001, 5:06 am
Re:I miss my Trooper (OT,no kidding)
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 10:02 am
is it provocative?
mike allen ---> -- 5/2/2001, 7:42 pm
put "won't" before the expletive *NM*
mike allen ---> -- 5/2/2001, 7:47 pm
intended provocation
mike allen ---> -- 5/3/2001, 2:22 pm
Re: I'll bite
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 4:00 pm
Re: I'll bite
mike allen ---> -- 5/3/2001, 5:11 pm
Re: I'll bite
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 5:39 pm
Re: I'll bite
mike allen ---> -- 5/3/2001, 5:55 pm
Re: I'll bite
Lee Gardner -- 5/4/2001, 12:04 am
Re: Very nicely put Mike *NM*
Ben Staley -- 5/3/2001, 5:25 pm
Re: What is art?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/2/2001, 6:12 pm
EVERYONE is qualified.
Paul -- 5/8/2001, 11:02 pm
Re: What is art?
Jim Pace -- 5/2/2001, 7:14 pm
Re: What is art?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/3/2001, 10:01 am
Re: What is art?
Jim Pace -- 5/3/2001, 4:08 pm
Re: What is art?
Rob Macks -- 5/3/2001, 11:03 am
Re: What is art?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/4/2001, 11:34 am
Re: What it is.
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 3:48 pm
Re:eternal verities
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 10:11 am
Re: worthwhile?
Lee Gardner -- 5/2/2001, 6:43 pm
Re: worthwhile?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 5/3/2001, 10:16 am
Re: worthwhile?
Lee Gardner -- 5/3/2001, 10:33 am
Re: What is marketing?
Shawn Baker -- 5/2/2001, 6:30 pm
Re: Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK?
Jason Koldewijn -- 5/2/2001, 4:12 pm
Re: Hey Rob, lighten up a bit, OK?
Lee Gardner -- 5/2/2001, 3:58 pm
Re:relax: Craftmanship does = seamanship
Tony -- 5/2/2001, 3:17 pm
Re:relax: Craftmanship doesn't = seamanship
Tony -- 5/3/2001, 1:02 pm
Re: The Emperor's new canoe, right on!
Tony -- 5/2/2001, 12:27 pm
Re: most likely...
peter czerpak -- 5/1/2001, 3:18 pm
Wow.
Jim Eisenmenger -- 5/1/2001, 7:29 am
Re: Wow.
Rob Macks -- 5/1/2001, 8:16 am
Re: Wow.
Arthur -- 5/4/2001, 8:55 pm
Re: Wow.
david -- 5/1/2001, 10:41 am
Re: Wow.
Rob Forsell -- 5/1/2001, 3:27 pm
According to the builder...
Brian Nystrom -- 5/1/2001, 12:32 pm
A fair price
Ed K. -- 5/1/2001, 2:24 pm