: Yeah we are a virtuous lot up here .... but only because we tend to ice up.
: (LOL):D the closer we get to absolute zero the less Brownin motion.

: I actually had Rob's boat doing 6.2 on a borrowed GPS into the wind with out
: really cranking it. Someone will have to tell me what the upper limits are
: on this boat.

: !RUSS

Forgive my unresponsiveness to questions directed to me.

Just returned from a week in the wilderness of 30,000 Islands on Georgian Bay, Lake Huron last night. What’s happening in the world? I've been sleeping on granite for a week and my body is adjusting to soft surfaces.

In answer to some of the questions in this tread....

I don't have or use a GPS unit so I can't comment on speeds. However, last fall at the Newfound Rendezvous in NH, Peter Hunt of Lit'l Duabber? boats clocked all the fastest boats present and told me my North Star and Shooting Star baidarkas were the fastest boats there at cruise and sprint speeds. I don't have contact info for Peter, sorry, maybe someone else here knows how to reach him.

In terms of making the Shooting Star narrower, I’d don’t know if you’re going to gain much speed. Or loose something else. However, the nice thing about building your own boat is you do whatever you like!

You needn’t alter the stations to reduce width by an inch on the Shooting Star, or any kayak or canoe. Build you hull on the forms and glass the outside of the hull. When you strip your deck make IT a half inch narrower on each side tapering to full width at the stems. THEN when you glass the inside of the hull pull in the sides to fit the deck. The hull of any stripper is very flexible until the inside surface is glassed. You can use this to your advantage to increase or decrease the hull width of any stripper. But BEWARE! If you are unaware of this flexibility and assume your hull or deck will maintain it’s shape when the stations are removed you can run into a deck of one width and a hull of another. I don’t believe an inch adjustment to the center of the hull done in this manner will have much of an impact on overall hull design.

As to surfing, Surfing deep water waves and breaking waves are very different. The face of a breaking shore wave is steeper requiring more skill and physical strength to surf in a sea kayak. Deep water waves have greater distance from top to top and are easier to surf in a sea kayak, since your bow can not as easily dive for the fishes.

Surfing takes a lot of practice, plus learning the feel of your boat and how it handles waves. Balance and paddle placement is everything. This has got to be much more difficult to learn on ocean waves since you have a limited time to ride the wave and then must paddle out a wait for the right wave and hope you catch it. I’ve had a lot of years of whitewater paddling to practice surfing waves. On whitewater the wave is stationary and often unchanging. All you have to do is fight other boaters to get in there and surf. Once on a whitewater wave you can sit there forever getting the feel of slight changes of weight placement and paddle angle.

You will not be able to maintain your place surfing a wave without quartering the face to a great degree. You will certainly broach (turn sideways and suck water) or dive, nose first and then broach if you are unable, or lack the skill/experience to maintain the right angled course on the face of a wave.

Surf kayaks are very short and very flat bottomed which allows them to turn on a dime. Don’t expect anything near this kind of responsiveness in a sea kayak.

We can devote a whole tread or two on wave dynamics and surfing style.

Designers that want a more responsive (turning) kayak will incorporate features like a flatter bottom more beam and short length, these features would all be relative to other sea kayak designs not surf kayaks.

Since I study native designs for my kayak sources I don’t use rudders and most of my designs emphasize tracking over turning qualities. Most of the native designs I’ve studied have a pronounced vee keel which will make tracking stronger.

However in designing the North Star and Shooting Star kayaks I’ve considered that the native designs are WORK BOATS made for hunting. I’ve made changes to the baidarka design I thought would reflect considerations important to modern recreational paddlers use and expectations (my own along with most other experienced paddlers). Generally, these changes from the true native lines are to improve stability and handling when paddling an unloaded kayak which accounts for 95 % of a rec paddlers time on the water. And I have added rocker for increased maneuverability and better surfing characteristics.

The shorter Shooting Star turns very well, quicker than the North Star. Since it is shorter than the North Star I’ve reduced the rocker of the Shooting Star to improve tracking relative to the shorter waterline. The Shooting Star has a very low profile for very little wind resistance. The greatest width is 21” just fore of the cockpit. This is at the sheerline, at the waterline the greatest width is 20”.

BTW I stopped at the Canadian Canoe Museum in Peterborough, ON, on my way to Georgian Bay. They have done a terrific job of presenting boats and information. Every time I stop they have expanded and improved their offerings. They had a lot of kayaks on display along with documentary video loops playing on kayak building and arctic hunting.
One of the hunters had a very long paddle with blocky protrusions on the loom and drip rings. I noticed the drip rings because we talked about drip rings on native paddles recently and I said they don’t use them, ha!

This has made me realize the diversity of building ideas and methods expressed on this BB reflects, I think, a common, universal and perhaps ancient way of all who make objects. They look at others and incorporate their own ideas into the creation of something new. We just can’t leave well enough alone.

The more I learn the less I know.

All the best,

Rob Macks
Laughing Loon CC&K
www.LaughingLoon.com