Thanks again for the great ideas! I'm going to use a lateen (sp?) sail I got in a deal some time back. I think it was used on a snark. I've already determined the center of effort in relation to the center of lateral resistance. I'm thinking of using two rudders now on each side of the boat connected together with a cross menber simular to the stearing assembly on a riding lawnmower. The idea here is to have smaller rudder blades and allowing for at least one blade to be deep in the water when healing over. What do ya think? I like ther pvc pipe idea with the blades mounted on dowels. This should allow me to simply reach back to the cross member for control.

> Now things are clearer. In that case, a pintle mounted rudder
> could be nice for you. Allowing easy removal for when you are paddling.
> As well making it a swing rudder, so you could swivel it up and down
> for those trips you do both. That would be easier and dryer then taking
> the rudder out of the water and setting it in the boat.

> I was just reading about some experiments with forward rudders
> and midship rudders. Neither worked well, having to do with weatherhelm
> and such. Which it's far too early in the morning to seriously ponder.
>

> In all honesty, I don't see why you couldn't put the rudder right
> at the stern. Mount the eye pieces there with the legs going down
> each side of the canoe a few inches. Basically just like the kayaks
> mount external rudder hardware when they chose not to drill a hole
> in the deck. If it places you further back then you'd like to be for
> grasping the tiller, you can always use a hiking stick with a sidways
> mounted tiller. Then it's be fore and aft pushing of the stick to
> steer. That's no big deal.

> However, just sticking with a side mounted rudder, as long as
> you've got it mounted somewhat abaft, you should be allright. After
> all, the little sail boats like Snarks and such don't have much distance
> between the rudder and the mast or dagger board. A canoe is longer,
> and should be able to have that sort of distance with no problems.
> Obviously you're going to need a longer shaft to get the rudder down
> low enough to be able to turn under the canoes hull. Though you could
> minimize this by shaping the upper portion of the rudder to match
> the hull. Or by offsetting it away from the hull. Of course, the further
> away you get, the more sensitive to roll it becomes. Just like those
> leeboards.

> Doing this is probably going to mean some loss of performance.
> You have to weigh out what you're after, and what you're willing to
> risk and experiment with. Most likely in a sailing canoe regata you'll
> be a slower boat and not be able to come up as close into the wind
> with your rudder further forward. But does that really matter to you?
>

> A whole lots going to depend on the boat design as it exists
> as well. Something with a lot of rocker is going to be a lot more
> reactive to having the rudder nearer the mast then a boat with lots
> of built in tracking. Similarly rolling effects.

> A canoe's an easy boat to do some crude experimenting with for
> your rudder. A couple of c-clamps, about a foot of pvc pipe, some
> scrap plywood and a piece of board. Now you've got a crude but effective
> rudder to play with and move around the canoe to see just how sensitive
> it is, and if you can live with it. I think you're going to find out
> you can live with it fine. Especially if you do some experimenting
> with a longer tiller and a hiking stick to get the rudder further
> back.

> What kind of sail rig are you planning on? Or is that an experiment
> too? I'll be putting sailing capabilities on my kayak/canoe/thing,
> probably this winter.

> Oh yea, if you go over to the newsgroup alt.boat.building or
> alt.boat.paddle and ask about a link to an old canoe book, there's
> a guy there that put up a really neat old book on canoe building,
> of which a fairly large portion was dedicated to sailing canoes. Alas,
> I don't have the link on this computer. I'll try to post it tonight
> for you though, when I'm at home. I think that's the computer I've
> got the link on.

> If nothing else, check out the link to Lost in the Woods. They
> do sailing rigs for canoes and kayaks, and have some nice pictures
> to look at.