Boat Building Forum

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the magic *Pic*
By:mike allen
Date: 9/19/2007, 12:41 am
In Response To: Re: corrupted curvature (Bill Hamm)

: Somehow it seems easier to do this the old fashioned way ie: pencil on paper
: and loft it manually :)

really, these are fine points that are being discussed. If any yak designer (pretender or not) is a pencil/paper guy, it’s got to be me as I manually draw everything that I am thinking about.

And I would consider my dwgs a failure if they had to be lofted before one could say whether they were correct in a full size application. But then derived developable panel shape is one step PAST boat shape lofting, where in manual terms panels are measured up from the full size already lofted building shape. Sheesh!

We are talking here the magic of a simple quick free program that can virtually instantly tell shape, size, volume, resistance, developability, forms, offsets, of any shape vessel that you put in!

A natural experiment of the 2 approaches is ‘facetious l’, where I drew the final drawings basically like a pencil dwg in a 2d cad program. I drew sideviews, top views, forms and worked and worked and worked interchangably to make them all agree with each other and with shapes that I had in mind – like over and over and over. And then I calculated areas of each form at different waterline hts and made simple estimates of the volume swept by these forms at the diff hts and made an estimate of how and where it would sit in the water. I then adjusted things like the ckpt etc to suit. And then I had to build lots of forms and from those forms, I had to then make crappy patterns that I then faired to make good patterns which I then used to make panels and it all took a long long time of flying blind with the hope that it would all turn out! And then when I had it 2/3 built, I didn’t like how the ends weren’t quite slicey enough and I hacked away a whole stitched and glued panel and parts of the 2 adjacent panels to get the shape I wanted . . .

But in ‘facetious ll’ (a slightly revised, less extreme version), I drew it up in a 3d program, always being able to get a fairly good look at in in 3d, always knowing where the cb was, always knowing how deep it would float, always knowing that all the forms were coordinated, always knowing that every move I made would be reflected in the 3d shape, and always knowing what the basic shape of the panels were going to be whenever I wished to just look. (3d panel developable dwg shown)

Magic, pure magic.

mick

Messages In This Thread

S&G: Delftship panel shape development *LINK* *Pic*
Dave Reekie -- 9/3/2007, 4:35 am
Just a thought...
Jay Doorly -- 9/4/2007, 12:02 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Bryan Hansel -- 9/3/2007, 1:59 pm
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Bryan Hansel -- 9/3/2007, 2:05 pm
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Dave Reekie -- 9/3/2007, 2:12 pm
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development *Pic*
Duane Strosaker -- 9/3/2007, 1:26 pm
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Dave Reekie -- 9/3/2007, 1:37 pm
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
HenkA -- 9/3/2007, 9:53 pm
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Robert McMurray -- 9/4/2007, 10:33 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Dave Reekie -- 9/4/2007, 11:14 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Robert McMurray -- 9/4/2007, 11:46 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Bill Hamm -- 9/5/2007, 2:19 am
Re: torture *Pic*
Robert McMurray -- 9/6/2007, 12:19 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Toni V -- 9/4/2007, 2:43 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
HenkA -- 9/4/2007, 10:08 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 9/4/2007, 11:01 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Dave Reekie -- 9/4/2007, 4:26 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Bryan Hansel -- 9/4/2007, 12:14 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
HenkA -- 9/4/2007, 12:37 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
HenkA -- 9/5/2007, 12:41 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
David Reekie -- 9/8/2007, 8:11 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Bill Hamm -- 9/12/2007, 4:53 am
bending ply *Pic*
mike allen -- 9/12/2007, 11:57 am
Re: bending ply
Bill Hamm -- 9/16/2007, 3:20 am
Re: bending ply
Bryan Hansel -- 9/12/2007, 1:30 pm
s&g (developable) surf kayaks *Pic*
mike allen -- 9/12/2007, 2:23 pm
Re: s&g (developable) surf kayaks
Bryan Hansel -- 9/12/2007, 11:54 pm
another s&g (developable) surf kayak: *Pic*
mike allen -- 9/13/2007, 1:30 am
Re: another s&g (developable) surf kayak:
Bryan Hansel -- 9/13/2007, 7:13 pm
a s&g freeship surf kayak - the 'rail' *Pic*
mike allen -- 9/14/2007, 1:33 am
Re: a s&g freeship surf kayak - the 'rail'
Bryan Hansel -- 9/15/2007, 7:45 pm
some freeship techniques *Pic*
mike allen -- 9/16/2007, 3:46 am
Re: some freeship techniques
Bryan Hansel -- 9/17/2007, 5:04 pm
more freeship techniques *Pic*
mike allen -- 9/18/2007, 2:33 am
Re: more freeship techniques
Bryan Hansel -- 9/18/2007, 9:11 pm
control curve vs actual shape curve
mike allen -- 9/18/2007, 9:46 pm
Re: more freeship techniques
Bryan Hansel -- 9/18/2007, 9:07 pm
Re: more freeship techniques
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 9/18/2007, 8:56 am
corrupted curvature
mike allen -- 9/18/2007, 3:32 pm
Re: corrupted curvature
Toni V -- 9/19/2007, 6:49 am
Re: corrupted curvature
mike allen -- 9/19/2007, 2:42 pm
Re: corrupted curvature
Toni V -- 9/20/2007, 6:11 am
Re: corrupted curvature
mike allen -- 9/20/2007, 7:39 am
Re: corrupted curvature
Bill Hamm -- 9/18/2007, 6:43 pm
Re: corrupted curvature
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 9/19/2007, 12:56 pm
Re: corrupted curvature
HenkA -- 9/19/2007, 8:26 am
the magic *Pic*
mike allen -- 9/19/2007, 12:41 am
Re: Somebody has to ask....
TOM RAYMOND -- 9/19/2007, 12:16 pm
Re: Somebody has to ask.... *Pic*
mike allen -- 9/20/2007, 3:02 pm
Re: Somebody has to ask....
TOM RAYMOND -- 9/20/2007, 4:32 pm
some are a little more normal *Pic*
mike allen -- 9/21/2007, 3:58 am
Re: some are a little more normal
Bryan Hansel -- 9/21/2007, 8:33 am
Re: some are a little more normal
mike allen -- 9/21/2007, 12:16 pm
freeship sketch version of 'solitude 15' *Pic*
mike allen -- 9/22/2007, 6:33 am
freeship 'solitude 15' - 90 deg panel twist
mike allen -- 9/25/2007, 2:07 pm
Re: a s&g freeship surf kayak - the 'rail'
Ken Blanton -- 9/14/2007, 7:00 am
Re: a s&g freeship surf kayak - the 'rail'
mike allen -- 9/14/2007, 5:03 pm
'la ligne' - another s&g freeship surf kayak *Pic*
mike allen -- 9/14/2007, 2:18 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Bryan Hansel -- 9/5/2007, 1:09 pm
freeship is still continuing - at vers 2.78
mike allen -- 9/4/2007, 12:08 pm
Re: freeship is still continuing - at vers 2.78
Dave Reekie -- 9/4/2007, 1:43 pm
freeship stuff + vers 2.78 link *LINK*
mike allen -- 9/4/2007, 3:13 pm
Re: freeship stuff + vers 2.78 link
Toni V -- 9/5/2007, 4:04 pm
Re: freeship stuff + vers 2.78 link
mike allen -- 9/5/2007, 4:31 pm
Update *LINK* *Pic*
David Reekie -- 9/8/2007, 8:39 am
Update comments
mike allen -- 9/10/2007, 1:26 pm
Re: Update comments
Toni V -- 9/11/2007, 7:55 am
Re: Update comments
mike allen -- 9/11/2007, 11:55 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Toni V -- 9/3/2007, 10:27 am
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
HenkA -- 9/3/2007, 9:42 pm
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development *Pic*
Robert McMurray -- 9/3/2007, 1:15 pm
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Dave Reekie -- 9/3/2007, 1:23 pm
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Robert McMurray -- 9/3/2007, 3:13 pm
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Dave Reekie -- 9/3/2007, 1:14 pm
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development
Toni V -- 9/3/2007, 2:47 pm
Re: S&G: Delftship panel shape development *LINK*
Daren -- 9/3/2007, 8:46 am