: Care to educate me on exactly why you think Valley fittings would work
: "OK" in a glass boat and not in a stripper?

Because you cut a hole for a recess, and lose all the glass in the area that
the fitting will bolt into. Unless I am grossly misunderstanding how you
intend tom use them (which is perfectly possible, of course).

: Yep, it happens sometimes. But I've never been out with a friend and have it
: happen. In the summer, I guide two trips a day and this last summer, I
: guided around 500+ people and only saw a few times where boats were lifted
: and carried by the deck lines and not by the handles.

That's interesting. Most folk I know (who paddle fibreglass boats) will
whinge at you if you pick the boat up by the end toggles - these are for
hanging onto if you swim and don't want to lose the boat, and are not to
be risked by being used to pick the boat up. You can just about get away
with it if the boat is empty and they are not watching closely... otherwise
you are supposed to put your hand under the keel to carry it. Once you
have more than two people, then you are encouraged by those same people
to use the deck lines.

: In real life, people
: are smart enough to see the handles,

... and imagine they are for picking up the boat - which is why we tend
to watch new people to make sure they don't !!

: especially if you give them a quick
: talk about picking up and carrying the kayaks. The times that the boats
: were carried by the deck lines didn't really concern me, because they were
: outfitted with Valley Fittings or something similar. We had no problems
: with our glass boats and Valley Fittings or our plastic boats and Valley
: fittings. They're plenty strong.

But are they as strong in a stripper or S+G ? its the lack of continuity of
glass at the fitting that would worry me.

As for the decklines versus end toggles issue - that seems to be a difference
in culture. I certainly built my end toggles with the expectation that they
would be used to pick up the boat, and use them that way myself, but respect
my friends' wish that I don't use their end toggles the same way. I have seen
the cord on end toggles break, so I can see the issue (end toggles flap about and the cord gets a lot more wear and tear than deck lines), but I tend to
use spectra cord for end toggles - being stiffer as well as stronger, it
doesn't flap so much and gets less wear.

Andy