: I want to do some camping with my niece. So I need the to be able to haul
: some gear. This will take place on mostly flat water. Some of the rivers
: around us have shoals and maybe a couple of class 2 rapids. Not real white
: water where we would go.

: The advantages I see are that a canoe could be lighter (no decking) and
: probably a bit more convenient to camp out of. Quicker to build but that
: is really an issue. Kayak being a closed boat is nice because it keeps
: unwanted water and animals and insects out. It can be rolled and a canoe
: can not. Of course she will probably never learn but the first 180 degrees
: anyway. :-)

: I will build me a kayak regardless, Maybe her a canoe and me a kayak. But I
: am serious in asking what advantages the kayak has for someone who spend
: their time on flat water and does a little camping? Not stirring the pot
: either!

Here is another option. You might want to reverse your priorities and build her the kayak and get the canoe for yourself. If you want to consider this possibility, I'll be happy to e-mail you plans (all two pages of them) for an 11' kayak made from easily obtainable exterior-grade plywood. Cut the frames from 5/8 plywood and cover them with 1/4 inch plywood, or use the cheaper and thinner (5.3mm) lauan. It goes together in about 2 weekends, plus time for the paint to dry. Performance-wise it is nothing to brag about--about that same as the mass-market tupperware boats. The design predates the common use of epoxy and fiberglass, so none is called for in its construction. Personally, I'd coat the wood with a couple coats of epoxy resin so it would last longer, but without it, this should have a lifespan of 5 to 15 years.

Another thought would be to build a pirogue. It is basically a flat-bottomed canoe. Stable, fast to build, and great on calm lakes or shallow rivers. You can use a pole to propel this upstream, too. Check out the kits and instructions from Uncle John's. http://www.unclejohns.com/boat/ There is a picture from their website below. They sell a kit with the parts for the ribs and stems for $59.50, or the plans for $24.50. Make the longest length version. It will be more useful and stable. Here is a link to one builder's comments on this boat. http://www.unclejohns.com/boat/littleton/Default.htm

Let's work on your list one item at a time. Camping. How much gear do you feel comfortable with. A high-sided 17 or 18 foot canoe can carry almost half a ton of paddlers and gear. If you can go considerably lighter than that, and still feel comfortable at your campsite, then either boat will do. In both cases you have plenty of area at the ends of the boat for tent, poles, food, clothes, stove, first-aid kit, and sleeping bags. Depending on how you build your boat you can store this in a sealed compartment, or an open area.

If you go to your campsite on the river by boat, how do you return home? Do you plan to paddle upstream? If so, the greater speed of the narrower kayak will make that much easier.

You didn't say how old your niece is, but if she is young she may not want to spend a full hour (or more) paddling. So the task of moving the boat is going to fall on you. A double bladed paddle with either boat will give you more power and better ability to steer in a straight line. Consider your seating positions, however. In a kayak you sit close to the floor, and the decked boat has low sides. In a canoe the sides are at least 12 inches high, and the seat is about 2 to 4 inches below the gunwale, or 5 to 10 inches above the floor. If you are using a double bladed paddle from a raised canoe seat you will probbly want a longer one than you would need if you were in a kayak.

Rapids of any kind, and lake waves, can send water into an open canoe. To avoid this, they make the sides of a canoe higher. The deck on a kayak, in combination with sprayskirts, helps to keep out the splashing water, despite its low sides. If you took the difference in the wood that makes up the higher sides of the canoe, and could fold it over so that it closed the top of the canoe, you'd have a kayak which weighed the same as the canoe. The difference inthe height of the sidewalls would make up for the material in the deck, so both boats would have identical weights. In practice, though, kayaks are designed to be narrower than canoes. A common width for canoes is 35 to 36 inches, and a narrow canoe is 27 to 28 inches. A kayak might be as narrow as 20 inches, and a wide one would go up to 25 or 26 inches. Despite the deck, the narrower kayak, with its lower sides, uses less material and can often weigh less than a canoe of the same length.

I know of people who can roll canoes, and I know more people who claim they can roll canoes. I It takes practice to roll a kayak, and if you have two people in the kayak, they have to practice together. think you might want to concentrate on getting to your campsite without needing to roll either a canoe or a kayak. In such a case you have more options on deck design, too.

For recreational use in mild weather (and I don't think you'll be dodging icebergs), you can build your boat with a large cockpit opening in which one or two people can sit. For solo use you change the position of the seat and backrest. For really rough water you can make a cockpit cover from a waterproof fabric and it is almost as good as a sprayskirt. Keep that on the boat to deter bugs from getting in. make another one from a mesh fabric and you can paddle on the hottest days and still be cool inside, but your legs won't be bothered by mosquitoes and biting flies. You can make similar cloth covers for canoes, they are just bigger, and you'll need to install snaps or velcro on the gunwale to attach them.

Finally, the advantage of the kayak on flat water is its ability to paddle in a straight line and its greater speed. This comment may get some arguments without further explanation. the kayak's ability to go in a straight line is combination of several items. A kayak is narrower than a canoe. To get the necessary displacement so that a kayak can carry paddlers and gear the boat is made longer than a canoe. A solo canoe might be 12 to 15 feet long, while a solo kayak might be 15 to 18 feet long. On a kayak, the narrow hull gives it less water resistance and the greater waterline length also contributes to helping the boat go faster. This length also gives the boat a greater resistance to turning, so it tends to go in a straight line. If you build a canoe, build a long canoe. 17 or 18 feet, Not only will it paddle faster and easier, but as people get older and larger the boat can take the added weight of the gear they can't leave home without.

A caveat: Designers can (and do) change the bottom curvature of the kayak and canoe hulls to give them better turning capabilities. The amount of curvature is called "rocker", (think of the rails at the bottom of a rocking chair) and a boat with a lot of rocker, such as would be used for playing in whitewater rapids, can look somewhat like a banana, with the ends above the water. A little rocker is good, but, you want to avoid such radical rocker for a boat meant for open water or mostly open rivers.

Keels and skegs and rudders. When The Big Name in canoes was Grumman, and almost all you saw were aluminum canoes, you could get your boat with a keel or without. The idea was that you needed a keel to help you go straight in lakes, but on a river you didn't want one as it hindered handling when going around rocks or falline trees. Well actually none of that was true. Grumman needed something stiff in the middle of the boat so they could rivet the two sides together, so they used a "T" shaped extrusion, and called it a keel. For the "keeless" design they just used a heavier oval extrusion. Boats made of materials which would otherwise be too flimsy are still make with something akin to a keel. Take a look at the aluminum tube running down the length of a Coleman plastic canoe, for example. Canoes don't need keels. Neither do kayaks.

A skeg is something like a short keel. It goes in the back of the boat, in line with the center of the boat, and acts like a fixed rudder. It helps the boat to go in a straight line. Boats with a lot of rocker frequently have skegs so they can go straight, but still turn in a short distance.

You will see a lot of sea kayaks which are fitted with rudders. You will rarely see them on canoes, as they are usually not allowed when racing. Either way, you might consider adding one. You probably won't be racing this boat, and if you do, you can take the thing off. With an inexperienced paddler who might paddle more strongly on one side than on the other, a little bit of correction from the rudder helps to keep the boat on course. If you should decide to later add a sail to your boat (canoe or kayak) you'll have the rudder and just need to clamp on a plywood lee board to go flying over those lakes.

Build time. About the same. Actually, the kayak may have a slight edge here. The basic hulls take about the same time to build, but on a canoe you need to mount inner and outer gunwales, and you may fit decks at the ends of the boat.
After that you have to hang the seats and add the thwarts. On a kayak you cna make the deckbeams (if any) or bulkheads, in the same time as you can make a thwart, and bending a sheet of plywood over them is a lot faster than attaching gunwales. The kayak calls for a coaming around the cockpit opening, and the amount of time you spend on that can vary. Somepeople make vey elaborate cockpit openings. If you decide to make two openings or one large opening there will be a time difference, too.

By the way, were you able to find a supplier for marine plywood near you? Try calling Dixie Plywood (http://www.dixieply.com/contact.shtml) They are in Savannah and Atlanta GA, and Charlotte NC, as well as a few other spots in the south. If they have what you need, it might be worth a trip to get it.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your building.

PGJ