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Just when things looked clear...
By:Pete Rudie
Date: 1/31/2002, 9:31 pm

...they got confused again. I wrote the following email to Mr. Smith at CPES:

> I have a technical question about CPES. I used CPES to good effect on
>restoration of a historic log house in Seattle, and am sold on the product.
>This question is about my cedar strip kayak building hobby, and other builders
>are anxiously awaiting resolution of some questions.
>
> I built a new Western red cedar kayak paddle, saturated as per Rot Doctor
>instructions 3 times wet-on-wet to rejection, which took about 1 hour. This >was all done last November, with ambient temp about 45 here in Seattle, high
>humidity, and using the Cold Weather version of the product. That was on a
>Tuesday. The following Sunday, there was a mild lingering odor but the surface
>felt hard. There was no discoloration, cloudiness or other indicia of the >blush that we get with layup epoxies.
>
> I took the stick to rolling practice at a swimming pool. When immersed in >the pool water, a slime developed that made the stick really slippery. It was
>totally unexpected. I took it out of the pool, hosed it off outside and the
>slime melted right away, and it has been fine ever since. But that raised a >big red flag for me. My observation is that whatever this film was, it >constitutes a potential bondbreaker for following coats. It does not act like >blush, but more like an oily residue. Have others experienced this >condition? Is it residue from the solvent evaporation? Could it be from >impurities in recycled solvents used in manufacture?
>
> It seems likely that this film would be a bondbreaker for any topcoats. >There is a discussion now on the premier wood sea kayak construction BBS
>(http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Building/index.cgi) about using CPES as a
>sealer before applying the first layer of fiberglass. I proposed and >championed the idea, with the proviso that the film should be rinsed off >before applying the glass. Does this sound reasonable? How would you suggest >that we test for this condition and deal with it otherwise?
>
> BTW, I used to be in the epoxy floor application business, and have done >over 2 million sq. ft., so I'm up the learning curve on epoxy.

Mr. Smith promptly replied:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Hi, Pete

that sounds as if some of the residual solvents in the material and a trace of
not-fully-but-almost-cured material came to the surface. Remember , the
solvent system must be able to dissolve the water in wood, and so contains a
considerable amount of water-soluble solvents. The residual solvents do
diffuse out of the wood, and the "slime" was an emulsion of the
resin/residual-solvent system with water. It was cold, and so it would have
taken perhaps several weeks for the solvents to fully leave. Normally, one
proceeds from CPES-stabilized wood to some epoxy or polyurethane coating, or
epoxy laminating resin, and one does not immerse in
water.

You don't have to worry about "bone-breaking phenomena. In normal
circumstances it won't happen and doesn't , based on my 30 years of experience
with tens of thousands of users of my products."

Well, there you have it we don't have to worry about broken bones. :D

Messages In This Thread

Epoxy: To Evaporate and Blush or not to .....
Joe -- 1/30/2002, 8:20 pm
Re: Epoxy: To Evaporate and Blush or not to .....
Steve Smith -- 2/1/2002, 4:38 pm
Thank you Mr. Smith
Pete Rudie -- 2/1/2002, 5:52 pm
Re: Epoxy: To Evaporate and Blush or not to .....
Jim Chowning -- 2/1/2002, 10:40 am
Thanks for the answer
Pete Rudie -- 2/1/2002, 12:09 pm
Re: Thanks for the answer
Jim Chowning/The Rot doctor -- 2/1/2002, 12:55 pm
Re: Thanks for the answer
LeeG -- 2/1/2002, 1:41 pm
Re: Thanks for the answer
Jim Chowning/The Rot doctor -- 2/2/2002, 12:31 pm
Re: Thanks for the answer *Pic*
Pete Rudie -- 2/2/2002, 1:46 pm
Re: Epoxy: To Evaporate and Blush or not to .....
Severne -- 1/31/2002, 11:52 am
Just when things looked clear...
Pete Rudie -- 1/31/2002, 9:31 pm
Re: Just when things looked clear...
Joe -- 2/1/2002, 3:01 am
Re: you are a reasonable guy
LeeG -- 1/31/2002, 10:52 pm
Only 1/32" Penetration ???.....
Joe -- 1/31/2002, 2:40 pm
Re: Greater Penetration
Chip Sandresky -- 2/1/2002, 12:45 pm
Re: Only 1/32" Penetration ???.....
Pete Rudie -- 1/31/2002, 2:56 pm
Re: Only 1/32" Penetration ???.....
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 2/1/2002, 10:54 am
Good point. And it IS Softwood. *NM*
Joe -- 2/1/2002, 11:11 am
however
mike allen ---> -- 1/31/2002, 3:05 pm
Re: however
Jim Chowning/The Rot doctor -- 2/1/2002, 7:36 pm
Re: however
Pete Rudie -- 1/31/2002, 6:22 pm
Re: however
mike allen ---> -- 1/31/2002, 6:38 pm
I asked Dr.Rot to come and answer us HERE!
Joe -- 1/31/2002, 4:45 pm
Re: I asked Dr.Rot to come and answer us HERE!
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 2/1/2002, 10:49 am
Re: Only 1/32" Penetration ???.....
LeeG -- 1/31/2002, 3:01 pm
It's not really blush .....
Pete Rudie -- 1/31/2002, 1:40 am
But could it be . . .
Paul G. Jacobson -- 1/31/2002, 10:33 pm
Good point,
Pete Rudie -- 1/31/2002, 11:50 pm
MORE than fair. Thanks *NM*
Joe -- 1/31/2002, 7:31 pm
Re: It's not really blush .....
Joe -- 1/31/2002, 3:04 am
Re: It's not really blush .....
LeeG -- 1/31/2002, 3:27 am
Re: Pure Speculation...
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 1/31/2002, 9:02 am
Re: Pure Speculation...
Tom Johansen -- 1/31/2002, 5:53 pm
Re: Pure Speculation...
LeeG -- 1/31/2002, 8:31 pm
Re: Pure Speculation...
Jim Chowning/The Rot doctor -- 2/1/2002, 2:01 pm
Re: Pure Speculation...
LeeG -- 2/1/2002, 5:17 pm
No speculation here...
Pete Rudie -- 1/31/2002, 6:15 pm
Dr. Rot replies ....
Joe -- 1/31/2002, 7:01 pm
Re: immaculate speculation
LeeG -- 1/31/2002, 2:56 pm
Limitations
Pete Rudie -- 1/31/2002, 11:21 am
Re: Limitations
Jim Chowning/The Rot doctor -- 2/1/2002, 1:49 pm
Re: Limitations
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 1/31/2002, 12:59 pm
Re: More Speculation...
Shawn Baker -- 1/31/2002, 10:46 am
Solving solvent worries
Paul G. Jacobson -- 1/30/2002, 10:50 pm
Re: Solving solvent worries
Joe -- 1/31/2002, 1:12 am
Re: Solving solvent worries
Jim Chowning/The Rot doctor -- 2/1/2002, 1:16 pm
Re: Epoxy: To Evaporate and Blush or not to .....
LeeG -- 1/30/2002, 8:54 pm
Re: Epoxy: To Evaporate and Blush or not to .....
Joe -- 1/30/2002, 10:13 pm
Re: Epoxy: To Evaporate and Blush or not to .....
LeeG -- 1/30/2002, 11:17 pm
Re: Epoxy: Good questions
don -- 1/30/2002, 10:48 pm
Re: Epoxy: To Evaporate and Blush or not to .....
Jon Murray -- 1/30/2002, 10:35 pm