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OH Shucky Darns!
By:!RUSS
Date: 2/19/2002, 9:43 am

Mark,
Ouch! Yikes and Shucky darns!!! I think that one's going to hurt. I'm guessing the problem is the acetone usage. Epoxy is a permiable chemistry. Its just that its not very permiable to water. Water is a bigger molocule then acetone.

I don't know the specifics of acetone's interactions with epoxy, but I suspect being a smaller molocule and a very strong polerizing agent there would be some interaction. It is in fact my understanding that full strength acetone does damaged and even cut down (diluted) is still sort of playing with fire. Not knowing the specifics of the chemical interaction of epoxy and acetone it is still my sense that that its usage would not be in the best interest of the epoxy especially on a fill coat.

Even if there is no chemical involvement, there is very likely to be a mechanical process in what you describe. As you roughed up the fill coat it is likely that you opened up many very small openings through the fill coat into the wood. I am guessing the acetone reached the wood and was sucked in a wicking action. Remember soft woods like ceder, pine etc are very poreous and good wicks for evaperants. Then you used soapy water which refilled the micro-cracks this acting effectivly as a plug. This effectively trapped the acetone which with no place to go, expanded along the wood F/G interface... This is likely causing swelling the wood and in addition to chemical interation the swelling is likely forcing the fiberglass off its bond.

Mark, All is not lost but a recovery is going to take some doing. The first thing I would do is wait for a series of real warm sunny summer days. Cook the boat in the sun letting all of the delaminating happen as the wood swells. Roll the boat to heat up all the outside surfaces.

Your going to need to plunk some money down for an ROS for this job. Or borrow one. After you have done the cooking, take your ROS and sand that coat off all the way down to bare wood. Every square micron of it. Then go back to the bright sunshine. Cook the boat in the sunshine again to drive all the acetone out of the wood. Let it heat and cool again and again to bring the acetone to the surface. Give the boat lots of time to breath. Do this for several days even a week or two. Then bring the boat inside again Don't work it for about 2 weeks just let the boat breath.

Hopefully by that time you have cleared the boat of acetone. It diffuses easily so I think this process should work. After all of that, I think you can apply another fill coat. Make sure that you are going to have the time within 36 hours to apply your weave to your fill coat as applying to a green coat is better then having to rough. Both work but I think appling to a geen coat is easier and creates better stronger cleaner results.

Mark I admire you for sharing you tough lesson with us. Some of the best of this board is the hey the boat looks great, coming up with new processes. Some of it is the sharing of what doesn't work. In the past, on the BBS we have been reminded to keep our gaurds up and our fingers out of the saw. Sweat the mixing of epoxy etc. When we share the negative lessons with each other we help other people avoid the shucky darn moments. The consequencial lessons shared are very valueable thank you from all of us for sharing what hasn't worked! It takes courage and I admire that!

Here are some suggestions of process I think that may be helpful. First, applying chemicals to clean a dusty boat can be a dangerous thing. Even if the chemistry is safe, if they wick into the boat the mechanical swelling can be a problem. It is possible to apply chemical polarizing agents, but it is not ussually wise to use acetone. I suggest using alochol. Don't apply itto the boat. Instead apply it lightly dampening a rag. then apply the rag to the boat Alcohol on a rag doesn't pool on the boat, evaporates faster and doesn't have as much chemical interaction. If you are applying chemical cleaners its better to do it on a hot boat then on a cold boat. And finally, its best not to apply such things to thin fill coats especially after they have been roughed up.

It is far easier in cleaning a boat to use a dust cloth a shop vac. If you do use alchol on a thin coat give the boat some breathing time.

Hang in there guy. THis boat can still come around its just going to take some extra doing.

!RUSS

Messages In This Thread

Epoxy: Has you ever had epoxy bonding problems?
Mark -- 2/18/2002, 5:26 pm
OH Shucky Darns!
!RUSS -- 2/19/2002, 9:43 am
I've got a similar issue too.
Jackson W. -- 2/18/2002, 8:00 pm
Re: I've got a similar issue too.
Rob Macks -- 2/19/2002, 9:12 am