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Re: Newbie contruction review, hardwood difs
By:Mike Loriz
Date: 4/25/2002, 1:07 pm
In Response To: Re: Newbie contruction review, hardwood difs (Sam McFadden)

Sam-

The pleasure's mine. You obviously know more about this than I do.

Let me return to the bedrock idea that I couldn't get away from no matter how fast I set the sander speed to. The idea is that perhaps the ideal material for the skin of a kayak is different than the ideal for any other kind of boat I can think of. I agree that for a sailboat one wants a stiff material, therefore, the balsa/glass composite works fine. High E, high P, light: what I would want any boat to have.

Except, I wonder, a kayak. The high degree of resistance to deflection that is so desireable in any other boat, including a canoe, is something I'm not sure I care about in the kayak. By replacing the 1/4" cedar with 1/8" hardwood, and replacing the 6 oz glass with 4 oz, the resistance to deflection would go way down, but so would weight, and compressive strength and fspl would go up. When I crunch against a big rock, the skin can deflect more easily, spreading the stress over a larger area, and minimizing the chance of crushing the outer wall of the wood and separating the outer layer of glass.

There is no problem. In a sense, this is an angels on the head of a pin thing. I am trying to figure out this structure, so I can optimize my next boat.

Perhaps the kayak, unlike most other vessels (except subs), has a structure that operates, to a degree, like a thin wall cylinder, as long as the cockpit and hatches aren't too big. I think that perhaps structural analysis of the kayak is different than other boats.

I agree that the sandwich analogy is simplified, as is the I beam anology. This is different. I do like the idea of trying to maximize the structural contribution of wood, something I understand faily well, and minimizing the contribution of glass/epoxy, which I don't understand too well. Of course, as you point out, no sense going overboard trying to fix something that isn't broken. I do wish I understood this stuff better, takes time, I guess.

Thanks, Mike

Messages In This Thread

Launching: photos?
Mike Loriz -- 4/23/2002, 9:16 pm
Another pic
Mike Loriz -- 4/24/2002, 10:40 am
Newbie contruction review, hardwood difs
Mike Loriz -- 4/24/2002, 2:18 pm
Re: Newbie contruction review, hardwood difs
Sam McFadden -- 4/25/2002, 12:56 am
Re: Newbie contruction review, hardwood difs
Mike Loriz -- 4/25/2002, 9:17 am
Re: Newbie contruction review, hardwood difs
Sam McFadden -- 4/25/2002, 11:27 am
Re: Newbie contruction review, hardwood difs
Andy -- 4/27/2002, 11:09 pm
Re: Newbie contruction review, hardwood difs
Sam McFadden -- 4/28/2002, 9:52 pm
Re: Newbie contruction review, hardwood difs
Mike Loriz -- 4/25/2002, 1:07 pm
Re: Newbie contruction review, hardwood difs
Sam McFadden -- 4/25/2002, 11:39 pm
Re: Newbie contruction review, hardwood difs
Mike Loriz -- 4/26/2002, 10:15 pm
Other species
Sam McFadden -- 4/27/2002, 12:09 pm
Re: Other species
Mike Loriz -- 4/28/2002, 9:10 pm
Re: Other species
Sam McFadden -- 4/28/2002, 9:45 pm
Re: Other species *Pic*
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/29/2002, 9:14 am
Re: Other species
Sam McFadden -- 4/29/2002, 5:27 pm
Go with the old wood/canvas canoe model
Paul G. Jacobson -- 4/27/2002, 12:48 am
Re: Go with the old wood/canvas canoe model
Mike Loriz -- 4/28/2002, 8:49 pm
Re: All Wood
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/26/2002, 10:06 am
No angels, pins or dancing needed :)
Paul G. Jacobson -- 4/25/2002, 9:10 pm
Re: No angels, pins or dancing needed :)
Mike Loriz -- 4/26/2002, 10:04 pm
Re: No angels, pins or dancing needed :)
Sam McFadden -- 4/25/2002, 11:24 pm
I would like jump in here
David Hanson -- 4/25/2002, 4:51 pm
What about using 1/8" Red Elm for strong strips?
John Monfoe -- 4/26/2002, 7:22 am
Re: What about using 1/8" Red Elm for strong strip
Mike Loriz -- 4/26/2002, 9:42 pm
Re: What about using 1/8" Red Elm for strong strip
John Monfoe -- 4/27/2002, 6:17 am
Re: What about using 1/8" Red Elm for strong strip
David Hanson -- 4/26/2002, 11:44 am
Use both feet :)
Paul G. Jacobson -- 4/25/2002, 9:58 pm
Re: I would like jump in here
Mike Loriz -- 4/25/2002, 9:40 pm
Now we are getting somewhere
David Hanson -- 4/26/2002, 11:36 am
Re: Now we are getting somewhere
Mike Loriz -- 4/26/2002, 9:33 pm
Re: I would like jump in here
Andreas -- 4/26/2002, 10:44 am
Re: I would like jump in here
Mike Loriz -- 4/26/2002, 9:04 pm
Re: The Wood Matters *Pic*
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/26/2002, 12:48 pm
Its a bird its a plane its a .....?
!RUSS -- 4/26/2002, 5:34 pm
Re: Its a bird its a plane its a .....? *Pic*
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/28/2002, 11:55 am
Re: The Wood Matters - You are right
Andreas -- 4/26/2002, 2:47 pm
Re: Credit *Pic*
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/26/2002, 5:16 pm
Re: Credit
Andreas -- 4/26/2002, 6:16 pm
Re: Delamination
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/28/2002, 12:41 pm
Re: Delamination
Mike Loriz -- 4/28/2002, 10:43 pm
Re: Delamination
Sam McFadden -- 4/30/2002, 12:08 am
Re: Delamination
Mike Loriz -- 4/30/2002, 12:37 pm
Calculations
Sam McFadden -- 4/26/2002, 12:43 pm
Re: Calculations
Mike Loriz -- 4/26/2002, 9:19 pm
Re: Newbie - Not!
Chip Sandresky -- 4/24/2002, 3:05 pm
Re: Newbie - Not!
Mike Loriz -- 4/24/2002, 7:06 pm
Re: Newbie - Not!
Steve Frederick -- 4/24/2002, 10:22 pm
Re: Newbie - Not!
Mike Loriz -- 4/25/2002, 8:44 am
Re: Launching: photos?
Mike Loriz -- 4/24/2002, 10:35 am
Re: Launching: photos?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/24/2002, 9:35 am
Re: Launching: photos?
Bobby Curtis -- 4/23/2002, 11:14 pm
Re: Launching: photos?
Mike Loriz -- 4/24/2002, 7:00 pm
Doh!!
Sam McFadden -- 4/23/2002, 11:01 pm
Re: Launching: photos?
daren neufeld -- 4/23/2002, 10:29 pm
Great!
Sam McFadden -- 4/23/2002, 10:55 pm
Re: Great!
Mike Loriz -- 4/24/2002, 6:57 pm
Re: Launching: photos?
John Schroeder -- 4/23/2002, 10:17 pm
Re: Launching: photos?
Ronnie -- 4/23/2002, 9:28 pm