: Hi Larry
: I understand what you are saying and if I may, I'd like to offer a couple of
: explanations or experiences I've had or observed: First: Titebond has a
: limited use time ( shelf life ). I have had situations similar to what you
: describe and on each occasion, I looked in the gallon jug and the glue was
: seperating. The older Titebond bottles had an experation date on them or
: stated to use within a year or so. The one I have presently does not. And
: I have never tried, but I suppose you could remix it. The gallon jug I'm
: using right now ( as I just looked down into it ) has some seperation
: happening and it was purchased in early 2001. I've used it up to about a
: month ago, and it worked fine, but I will either mix it back together or
: just waste it and get more.
: Second: The proper ( best ) method of gluing with yellow glues is to apply a
: thin layer of glue to each side of project, wait till it soaks in, then
: apply a fresh bead of glue and press together. If you just apply one bead
: and squeeze the parts together, you sometimes don't get good absorbtion on
: both pieces, especially if the bead has started to skin over before
: clamping. These glues work by capilary action, soaking into the wood
: fibers and therefore require a Good Fitting solid joint.
: Which brings me to Third: You MUST get a good solid fit of parts. Unlike
: resin which works better with a thicker application, these glues work best
: when they soak into each piece and the pieces actually make contact over
: the entire surface being glued. They will NOT gap and anywhere there is
: only glue and no wood contact, there is NO joint, only the dried glue
: which will shatter.
: Fourth: Titebond, Titebond II or Elmers ?? are NOT Waterproof in any way.
: They are water resistant, which is not the same. Put anything with these
: glues around moisture and they will disolve, just some slower than others.
: Titebond is a longer lasting bond with moisture. But they are all Water
: soluable. Which brings me to the next Question....

: I don't understand why anyone ( especially the manufacturers ) would
: recommend clean up of these glues with water. The mere statement that they
: are water soluable should give them a clue. When mixed with water, as in
: wiping with a wet/damp rag, they break down, thin out and are much more
: easily absorbed into the wood and therefore leave marks or stains. In the
: shops I've worked in, NOBODY ever used a wet rag to wipe off these glues.
: You end up with glue ( thinned ) soaking into a project and causing a
: multitude of problems. The biggest being that no finish will stick to it,
: or will stain or discolor. It soaks in much deeper than just the glue
: would. Much sanding is in order!
: Fifth: and maybe not something that happens often, when wiping down glue
: before it's set, you are adding water to the glue joint and thinning the
: glue or at least affecting it at the joint. Water Kills these glues or
: weakens them.
: I sometimes wonder if the humidity in certain areas would affect it. ??

: I have not had any problems with Titebond other than a couple of times when
: the glue was old/bad. I use the method I mentioned above. I wet both sides
: with the glue and in the case with strips, I would put the glue on one
: side, fit them together, shift the strips back and forth to get good
: coverage and pull them apart to double check. Then just add a tiny bead
: again and put together to clamp. Clamp until you see a squeeze-out along
: the whole length and tighten just a tad more.

: For clean up, THE ONLY WAY I do it is wait until the glue has set to a gel
: state and take a chizel or scraper and scrape it off. If you do it too
: soon, you risk pressing the wet glue into exposed wood and causing a
: stain, or at least a spot that will have to be deep sanded to get the glue
: out. If the glue is starting to harden, it won't wet the surface and will
: usually just chip off easily. If you wait until it's hard, it can often
: take some of the upper grain of the wood with it. ( that's what it's made
: for ). This method works VERY WELL for me and I never have any glue stains
: in the surrounding areas. If you leave the squeeze off and/or runs alone,
: they will just run down the surface and do not soak into the wood. Let
: them set up good ( maybe an hour or so ) and then just peel them off or
: scrape them. No Harm / No Damage

: NEVER USE A WET CLOTH TO CLEAN UP A WATER SOLUABLE GLUE. It just sets off too
: many alarms for me....

: These are just some of the things I've observed over the years that I've been
: using the Titebond and Titebond II formulas and I've had excellent results
: with it. On the other hand, the Elmers Yellow glue is a relative new comer
: to the market and I've never used it, so have no experience to offer, so
: You may be correct in it's abilities. ?? I have learned to trust the
: Titebond glues and will stay with them until I no longer trust them.

: And of course, that's all just an opinion as most everyone will learn to like
: whatever brand they use personally, as they learn all it's particular
: quirks and the methods I use may not work for other brands. ??

: Hope this is of some use. ??

: Rehd

Rhed,
We must agree to disagree--------------

I appreciate your input and I'm aware of your years of cabinet shop experience but, Softwood strip boat building is quite different in many ways.

First: The Titebond II I used was purchased 6 weeks ago at a homecenter and has a sell by date 5/03.

Second: I apply glue to the cove only and press bead into the cove and move back and forth which gives good contact.

third: I use staples, bungees, and 75 clamps per strip to get a tight fit between strips.

Fourth: Titebond II is the most water resistant of the yellow glues. It is the only one suggested for outdoor use. I used it because I thought it might give me better protection for my light lay-up on the RBA. Last evening I put a scrap piece of glued strips in a bucket of water overnight. It was just as solid this morning and the glue on the surface between the strips is just as hard as it was last night. I do believe for my purposes, Titebond II is WATERPROOF.

Five: Damp cloth clean up of glue is a standard strip building practice. that many builders do jut that. I learned a long time ago on my first stripper. that letting glue dry on the surface of strips (cedar) invites a lot of tearout when scraped off. I use a damp (not wet) cloth to remove squeeze out of glue between strips. it has worked great for me on all my strippers.

Rhed, all I am saying is, I don't like the handing characteristics of Titebond II as opposed to Regular yellow glues such as Elmers or regular Titebond. I am however, impressed with the Water resistance of the product.

Thanks for your input,

Larry