Boat Building Forum

Find advice on all aspects of building your own kayak, canoe or any lightweight boats

Re: Seeking: info on glue
By:Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks
Date: 1/7/2003, 10:22 am
In Response To: Re: Seeking: info on glue (Joe)

For myself I only use epoxy
: for gluing the strips. I know others don't like it, but it is the best
: glue to use and the ONLY reason they don't use it is the difficulty
: associated with its use (and the expense). For me I want the best glue and
: effort or expense are not good reasonjs for not using the best glue. Any
: carpenters glue is ok, but it is not the best no matter how you use or
: slice it.

It depends on how you define "best". If you want the strongest, it is possible that epoxy is stronger than carpenters glue, but if you use carpenters glue and try to break the bond, it will be the wood that fails. If you use epoxy, the wood will fail first again. So, for the purposes of strength, carpenters is just a strong as epoxy because the glue is not the weakest link.

If waterproofness is the criteria, epoxy is more waterproof than carpenters, but it is not better than polyurethane glues like Gorilla. And I've paddled a boat with a severe scrape into the wood below the waterline for 2 years without any adverse effect to the carpenters glue I used to glue it. I wanted to see what would happen and aside from a little staining around the area I could find no problems. While epoxy may be theoretically better than carpenters glue in this situation, in practice I don't see it making any difference.

One complaint against carpenters glue has been heat induced softening. The problem that suggested this theory is some signs of stress along joints between strips. Epoxy does not soften as much with heat so would theoretically solve the problem if softening is indeed the problem. I have seen the stress along joints in one of my boats. In this boat the problem was probably some sloppy workmanship. My current boat is 5 years old, is dark colored and has spent months stored out in the sun and is built with carpenters glue and shows no sign of stress along the strip joints. If glue softening is the cause of stress between strips, it is not sufficient cause by itself. It is possible a glue that softens less would eliminate the problem even if you did other stuff wrong, such has had sloppy joints or poor fairing on the inside of the boat, but I doubt it.

Epoxy makes a strong glue, but not by itself. If you use the resin straight from the jug without a thickening agent, you are apt to get starved joints as the resin is soaked into the wood or flows out of the joint. Epoxy is not that good at gap filling without a thickening agent such as Cab-O-Sil. A starved joint is as likely a cause of stress in the glass along joints as softened carpenters glue.

The hardness of epoxy will also cause problems in fairing and will increase the likelyhood of staining which will effect the final look of the boat. You can add fillers which make epoxy easier to sand, but they effect the strength.

Epoxy is also toxic. The more you use it, the more likely you are to come in contact with the uncured resin. The more you come in contact with it, the soon you will no longer be able to use it. It is nice to think that you will always put on a pair of gloves each time you put on a strip, but it will become a hassle and you will probably occasionally skip the step. You probably will also end up with epoxy on tools and occasionally grab the tools before putting on your gloves. And BTW, the thickening agents are also lung irritants. But you should be wearing a respirator while working with epoxy, so maybe that isn't an issue.

Wet epoxy does not much tack strength. When you push together strips with carpenters glue they tend to stay stuck together and within a few seconds the glue has dried sufficiently to remain tight. Epoxy does not work in the same manner, you will need to maintain clamping pressure until the epoxy has fully cured to assure that it stays tight. This could be hours. If you can maintain tighter joints with carpenters glue, you may end up with a stronger boat as a result.

Epoxy may have some good qualities to recommend it in the finished product, but any advantage is minor and in practical service does not make a significant difference. And any advantage is purely theoretical. I know of no testing that has demonstrated that a strip-built boat made with epoxy will last longer, or be any stronger than one made with any other glue. I have never had a boat fail due to some deficiency in the glue.

If you think the purely theoretical advantage is worth working with a toxic, expensive, and time consuming material, I can't see any reason for you not to use it. But being difficult and expensive to work with are good reasons not to use epoxy when the additional effort and expense don't provide a proportionate advantage. Heck, the only reason we don't just make dugouts and avoid glue all together is because dugouts are more expensive and difficult.

Messages In This Thread

Seeking: info on glue
Bill Sheehy -- 1/4/2003, 3:37 am
Re: Follow up Question
Chris -- 1/4/2003, 5:49 pm
Re: Follow up Question
Bill Sheehy -- 1/4/2003, 9:29 pm
Re: Follow up Question
Warwick Carter -- 1/5/2003, 2:59 am
Re: Seeking: info on glue *LINK*
Marcel Rodriguez -- 1/4/2003, 1:30 pm
Re: Seeking: info on glue
Joe -- 1/4/2003, 2:57 pm
Re: Seeking: info on glue
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 1/7/2003, 10:22 am
Actually, everybody uses some epoxy as a glue
Paul G. Jacobson -- 1/6/2003, 10:48 pm
Re: Seeking: info on glue
Andy -- 1/5/2003, 9:59 pm
Re: Seeking: info on glue
Don Beale -- 1/4/2003, 12:36 pm
It works for me! *Pic*
Ted Henry -- 1/4/2003, 3:48 pm
Re: It works for me!
Bill Price -- 1/4/2003, 9:04 pm
Re: It works for me!
Ted Henry -- 1/5/2003, 1:17 pm
Re: It works for me!
Bill Price -- 1/6/2003, 1:02 am
How do you do your scarf joints?
Jack Sanderson -- 1/6/2003, 9:15 am
Re: How do you do your scarf joints?
Bill Price -- 1/6/2003, 1:38 pm
Re: How do you do your scarf joints?
KenC -- 1/6/2003, 9:16 pm
Re: It works for me!
Joe -- 1/4/2003, 4:13 pm
Re: It works for me!
Ted Henry -- 1/5/2003, 1:06 pm
Re: Seeking: info on glue
Rehd -- 1/4/2003, 4:15 am
Re: Seeking: info on glue
Larry C. -- 1/4/2003, 11:18 am
Re: Seeking: info on glue
Mike and Rikki -- 1/5/2003, 12:04 am
Re: Seeking: info on glue
Jason -- 1/4/2003, 7:18 pm
Re: Seeking: info on glue
Rehd -- 1/4/2003, 1:05 pm
Re: Seeking: info on glue
Larry C. -- 1/5/2003, 9:05 am
Re: Seeking: info on glue
Roy Morford -- 1/4/2003, 12:31 pm