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Re: Epoxy: nightmare... Foaming Epoxy Latte'
By:Rob Macks
Date: 4/6/2003, 11:34 am
In Response To: Epoxy: nightmare... Foaming Epoxy Latte' (Malcolm Schweizer)

: Here's the scoop. I was using 6 oz on the hull with a precoat that had dried
: for a week, and was sanded with 100 grit and wiped down well with a wet
: rag. (Later in the story we learn adhesion was definately not the
: problem). Temperature was 78 degrees.

: I layed out the glass and smoothed the cloth over the hull, and got all my
: supplies ready. I mixed about a cup at a time of West System. I poured it
: on the hull and worked it around with a squeegee. I noticed that the glass
: was taking a little time to absorb the epoxy, but it was going clear. I
: got the entire hull wetted out, but kept noticing that there was a hazy
: appearance to the epoxy. It didn't seem to be the weave, it appeared to be
: the epoxy. When I went to scrape the excess that was when I realized that
: the epoxy was foaming at the surface. The epoxy that I scraped was coming
: off like skimming the foam off a latte. It was frothy, and left white
: streaks everywhere. I tried adding some resin to see what would happen,
: and to see if maybe it was the weave I was seeing, but the froth remained.
: Every time I spread out the epoxy it would do this. I did have one tiny
: spot do this on the clear coat, but it went away as it cured, so I thought
: maybe this would be the case. I let it sit as I consulted Nick's and Ted's
: books. I didn't see anything on Epoxy Latte Froth, so I decided to do the
: safest thing... yank off the cloth before it dries and start over. That
: was a nightmare in itself, as the epoxy had cured to a point where the
: cloth almost did not want to come off. I had to pull with all my might.
: The resin under the cloth was perfectly clear. It appears it was just this
: foaming thing at the surface causing the problem. The cloth seemed to be
: saturated as well.

: So what happened? I think one or both of two things: 1.) It had rained all
: day, and maybe there was a mist in the air that I did not see, and perhaps
: moisture was collecting on the surface.

: 2.) Too fast of a cure time. It only took about 2 hours to cure to an almost
: dry state.

: I'm a little bummed, but I'm not too upset because now I have this nice thick
: undercoat with a cloth texture to it. I will sand it down some, but it did
: make a really nice final fill coat.

: So what are your thoughts? Do you think it was moisture? I'm going to have to
: do some test strips now because I'm really worried about next time.

My guess is that the squeegee created foam as you spread the resin over the cloth.

I never pour resin on the glass, because the resin will go through the glass and the glass
will float on top of a layer of resin. The glass needs time to absorb the resin. There
will be some air trapped in the glass fibers which will make the cloth float on top of
the resin, while resin will flow through the larger holes of the weave. The more resin you
pour on an area and let sit before it gets spread, the worst the floating will be will be.

I learned about floating glass on my first canoe. I had friends help me apply the resin and
we didn’t know to squeegee off the excess. When I sanded I cut the tops off the glass in
spots where the glass was floating on a lyer of resin.

Now with the glass floating on top of a layer of resin, you push it down to the wood with the
squeegee and what happens, especially the harder you press on the squeegee as you spread
the resin, is that you create a tiny wave of fiberglass cloth in front of the squeegee which the
resin get pushed right through. So you are forcing the resin through the dry top of the cloth
creating your foam, then trapping the resin Latte' under the glass as you pass.

I've seen and done this before.

This is why I don't like spreading resin with a squeegee over large areas.

It can work well on a small area if you pour on only a tiny amount and gently spread
it over the surface quickly before it can sit and float the glass.

What you can do on a small area is not the same thing you will do on a large area.
Whether it's stripping, sanding, glassing or varnishing, it's always easier to work
on a small area.
It is very hard to focus on the details of a large area the why you do on a small one.

I make my squeegees form plastic milk cartons. This is thin soft plastic.
I just can’t press too hard or it just bends flat.

You must give the resin time to absorb into the glass. If you try to force the resin into
the weave with a squeegee or a roller, you create foam.

I like to have my whole shop 80°+ degrees when I wet out glass, to have all the
wood, glass and resin warm so nothing will inhibit the resin from wetting-out quickly.

I use a roller to wet-out the glass. I don’t pour resin on the glass, the roller pan meters
the amount on the roller cover. This isn’t fool proof either. Roll on too heavy a coat of
resin and you’ll float the cloth again. Work the roller back and forth to force resin to
wet-out the glass faster and you’ll make a nice foam. Use the squeegee to remove the
excess resin after rolling with too hard a pressure and it’s Latte” again.

Good thing you were able to get the glass off before the resin set. I'd give the resin a couple
days to harden so sanding will work better. Remove all the cloth texture you can BUT don't
sand into the bare wood or you'll have a dark ring around the edge of the bare wood patch
when it's recoated with resin.

Good Luck!

All the best,
Rob Macks
Laughing Loon CC&K
www.laughingloon.com

Messages In This Thread

Epoxy: nightmare... Foaming Epoxy Latte'
Malcolm Schweizer -- 4/6/2003, 7:05 am
Re: Epoxy: nightmare... Foaming Epoxy Latte'
Jay Babina -- 4/7/2003, 10:58 am
Re: Epoxy: nightmare... Foaming Epoxy Latte'
Malcolm Schweizer -- 4/7/2003, 7:12 pm
Re: Ditto
Rehd -- 4/7/2003, 12:28 pm
Re: Epoxy: nightmare... Foaming Epoxy Latte'
Jack Sanderson -- 4/6/2003, 12:18 pm
Re: Epoxy: nightmare... Foaming Epoxy Latte'
Malcolm Schweizer -- 4/6/2003, 6:23 pm
Re: Epoxy: nightmare... Foaming Epoxy Latte'
Rob Macks -- 4/6/2003, 11:34 am
Re: Epoxy: nightmare... Foaming Epoxy Latte'
Malcolm Schweizer -- 4/6/2003, 6:15 pm