Hi Lee- Thanks for all of the info. I think you are the Lee that I paddled with about 7 or 8 years ago of the Mendocino Coast. Is that correct? I have never built a kit boat and thought perhaps CLC would sell me the plans, but I was wrong. I usually build strippers and have built a few S&G boats over the years. Thought this boat would be a realativly fast way to get a double together. I think I will keep poking around to see if there is another fast double out there to investigate. Any ideas?

Ken

: I and another paddler from the local club were the first people to take the
: CLC ST "prototype" out on the water 6/01. It didn't have a
: rudder. It was a slight breeze and flat water. It has a moderate amount of
: rocker, more flare and rocker than a NorthBay (it really isn't a double
: NorthBay, it's a different boat, I built and owned a NorthBay), I don't
: have a lot of experience in doubles so my impressions are compared to
: Necky Tofino, Amaruk, Nootka,WS Northstar/plastic, NorthWest.5,
: NorthWest2.
: In intent it's similar to the CLC NorthBay regarding a usable low initial
: stability, that's about the only similarity. The northbay doesn't have
: much useful "secondary" in my opinion and it doesn't have much
: rocker. In the ST there is some actual secondary and bow volume but it's
: (stability) taken to it's limit given that two 190lb paddlers do not move
: as one 380lb paddler in a 22' kayak. In other words two adult paddlers
: leaning will require a brace, it's not that it's tippy,it's that if your
: buddy keeps leaning and doesn't contribute you'll be working against him.
: It actually turns more easily than you'd expect for it's length and
: follows a turn as a hard-chine hull should when leaned unlike the
: Chesapeakes,,but I wonder how useful that characteristic really is given
: 22' working AGAINST two paddlers. I mean it'll start turning on a lean but
: it's a bear to take out of a turn once the momentum of 22' and two
: paddlers starts swinging,,think of an Eclipse/Sea Lion. Managable for a
: single but I really wonder what it's like in waves. I'm under the
: impression that rudders and doubles go together,,they aren't just a
: tracking aid as it's not as likely to have people coordinated together all
: the time in all conditions,,and the physics simply make the turning
: effectiveness of blades much less than a rudder for a big boat and mass
: under way.

: We only took it out for 20minutes. The cockpits are about 1 1/2" closer
: together than a Tofino with I think has the closest cockpits for a double.
: I thought it would be a problem but not that much for folks with 220cm
: paddles,,I'd still want a couple more inches apart but that's me wanting
: to experiment. I put a Feathercraft rudder on it 8/01
: The next time it was taken out was 9/01 in a flat water race in an inlet off
: the Chesapeake. Lloyd Reeves in Atascadero built one about that time.
: 10/01 I paddled it in 8" waves and 15mph wind at St. Michaels over an
: L shaped course,,it needs a deeper rudder than the Feathercraft as the
: deck mounted installation is about 1 1/4" higher than the
: Feathercraft was designed for (sea lion rudder from 20yrs ago in off the
: stern fitting). Given the rocker and slightly high stern mount the rudder
: doesn't go very deep in the water and was evident on 8" waves.

: Personally I think it would be nice to play with the design a bit more as
: it's pushing four panels in an area where experimentation is needed to
: optimize stability, efficiency and wave handling. I'm picky and feel it's
: about 75% "there" given the market it is designed for.
: I'd put a sealine or similar rudder that is of sufficient depth relative to
: the low spot in the hull. From what I've heard from Brandon Nelson in his
: experience of Feathercraft rudders on doubles is that the blade is not
: strong enough. It sat in a trailer for a month before another model for
: the catalog was cut and built so it's the same design as two yrs ago. It
: never got any modification or testing in wind/waves by experienced
: paddlers before production or the design modified from that first model.
: But for 22'x22" and a kit it's the only one.