Tom

No. I have to wave the flag for alternastives to aluminum. The idea is to have something that you can be less attentive to, and is actually better in many way then the old standby. Aluminum corrodoes in salt water period. Why is it that anyone thinks to use aluminum...

: Since I have no experience with graphite stringers, I'm not qualified to
: discuss their use. However, I believe you are operating under some
: misconceptions regarding aluminum tubing, so I feel it's appropriate to
: comment on your points above.

Then look into graphite. There's this weird and negative view on carbon fiber that is born in ignorance. The stuf is stronger then aluminum with the same weight and does not degrade in water.

: 1. "Corrosion" -

: Not a problem if you wax and rinse them off regurally. Just clean them up

Labor intensive and subject to misses that can, and will, cause frozen connections. Take a hint from those of us in nothing but salt water, the stuff is nasty. It eats aluminum. Granted, spending time and energy washing the tubes off is nice, but exactly how much time does one spend versus paddling?

: 2. "Graphite Flexes to fit the curve". -

: So does aluminum. The only mechanical bending on my kayaks is the keel to
: stem / stern transitions. The rocker, sheer curve, gunwale, and chine bends
: are all natural flexing of the tubes. They go straight when removed. Symetrik
: has 3.5" rocker, with even greater sheer curve. My Aleuts have even
: greater
: rocker, up to 5 inches.

And the same is true with the appropriate graphite tube or rod. But again, graphite takes a hit better then a aluminum tube.

: 3. "Strength to weight Ratio" - My frames have never failed, and
: they are up
: to 17.5 feet long and weight as little 20 lbs with cross sections, footbrace,
: and coaming, minus the skin.

And carbon fiber is much stronger then every aluminum alloy by weight.

: 4. "Aluminum is bulkier" -

: I don't think that a 3/4" tube constituted bulk.

The same strength can be achieved by a graphite rod 1/3 the diameter and still have a surplus weight to strength advantage. And, graphite has give, particularly if the layup used epoxy versus a vinyl ester. Better is the high-heat boron epoxy layups.

: 5. " Graphite will not kink or dent under stress like aluminum" -

: I've built about 10 aluminum framed kayaks, both folding and non-folding, and

Granted, aluminum tubing is avaliable, and if you look around, hard-anodized tubing, too. Still, graphite resists dents and failures far beyond the equal sized and thickness aluminum tube. BUT: there is a minimum thickness tube wall for carbon fiber that aluminum isn't so constrained.

: Light weight and shipping damage -

: My 17.5 ft. folders average about 32 lbs. How much lighter should they be ?
: Many are shipped in a plastidc golf travel case that is about 50 inches long.

: I see no way that the tubes can be damaged in this case, any more than the
: golf
: golf clubs it was designed to hold. Even with a softbag, I've never
: experienced
: any damage. My two Cannondale bikes are aluminum, and they certainly have
: been
: durable.

Bikes and kayak frame tubing is like comparing apples and oranges. That's a poor comparison, I'm surprised that you even suggested it. But since you suggested comparisons, then how about this: aluminum handled paddles are truly low-end monsters o great weight and low strength versus carbon fiber paddles.

: One of aluminum's "strength's" is how easy it is to cut, drill, and
: rivet.

Carbon fiber is easy to mill, sand, and bond...and repair! Who would want to rivet anything? I use carbon fiber over anything else in that it's so easy to use and work.

: Plus, the tube ends can be easily shaped to permit a smooth tranistion at
: the stems. Something to consider when choosing building materials.

Carbon fiber layups are a breeze to sand and form.

: Good luck with the graphite tubing. I look forward to hearing about your
: experiences, both good and bad.

Malcolm, I use and work carbon fiber a lot. Need info and help and resources, there's many I can turn you on to. I formed numerous items to replace metal parts. The carbon fiber is much stronger and fails very predictably. Need help or info, E-mail direct. Might I suggest titanium tubing ends for the solid carbon-fiber rods? Theres many sources of titanium tubing on your side of the US as well as on my side. In fact, not 15 miles away lies a good metal supply place. Better then carbon fiber...how about titanium tubes?

: Tom