: OK guys. Thanks for the advice. I hear loud and clear a unanimous vote to
: build my own. And yet...

: I'm not really worried about the money.

Well, they say time is money. so my qustion is: how muh TIME do you have.

Some of the items you have issues with can be resolved with few skills, but they do require more time to fix than to do right the first time. You gave us quite a laundry list of thing you want to change or fix. A ballpark guess at the time required to make these changes puts you ery close to, if not above, the number of hourse required to build a new boat from the kit.

For example: it will take exactly as long to reglass the outside of the boat as it would take to put glass on a new kit. However, with an existing boat you have the added time requirement, and safety issues, of removing the old glass. It can take longer to remove the old stuff than to put the new stuff on.

As for the cost, you'll need to buy yards of materials to reglass the outside, and about 2 quarts of resin should do. You'll more than double your cost of sandpaper, as you'll need to sand the hull after, and during, the fiberglass removal job.

While dry or moist heat has been recommended for removing glass from a STRIP kayak, you are working with a plywood boat. You must take more care to avoid having the plywood's upper veneer layer separate from the underlying plys. with solid wood strips you can tug away, or scrape roughly, and then sand smooth any areas where splinters come up, or a putty knife might gouge.

The entire sheet of plywood is only 4mm thick, with the face plies somewhere over 1 mm thick. That does not give you a lot of material to work with. So, you will have to go slow and gently heat small areas, keeping the temperature just warm enough to soften the epoxy, but not so warm that it softens the glue holding the plywood together. In those areas where yo must sand you must be careful to not sand through the plywood veneer.

When building a boat you have the opportunity to work on the inside of the hull and deck before you put those parts together. Once the boat is assembled, unless you choose to cut the boat open (and rejoin the parts later) you'll have to do all your work on the interior of the boat by climbing into a rather restricted space, gaining access through hatches and the cockpit. It is slower.

: I don't have a shop to build one like
: I'd like to in.

I build outside on a deck attahed to my garage. At the end of the day I throw a tarp over the work to protet it from rain. When I can't work outside I spend much more time on this bulletin board.

: As I said at first, if I were to attempt to strip outer
: "candy shell" and redo it, I'd probably build a temporary tent
: structure in the backyard and do it in nice weather.

You don't need the tent unless you plan to be working during precipitation. If the weather is dry you can work under the open sky, even if the temperature is cool.

: But based on recommendations, I'll buy this boat and only do the necessary
: patch work to make it seaworthy, add comfort/fit modifications, rig the
: deck, and just enjoy it. I know ya'll are screaming about the price, but
: seriously, $900 seems like a deal to me. It's only a couple hundred more
: than the kit. And yeah, I'll probably dump a bit more money in it to patch
: and rig. About a quart of epoxy and hardener and what looks like a plenty
: of glass is included with purchase. I could not buy a new or used boat for
: that price (least not around here) that has the weight, strength, speed,
: and handling qualities this boat has, and that's not something I was told,
: that's what I've researched. Believe me, I've looked.

But if you can buy the kit for $700 then you CAN buy a boat with exactly what you are looking for, around you (they'll happily ship your order to your door), and for less.

: I paid $1200 for a new Necky Eskia polyethylene last January, and it's a fine
: boat, very seaworthy, lots of nice features, but this Arctic Tern
: surpasses it in a lot of areas, I think it will be a really good boat to
: further my learning of paddling techniques in. Most all of the braces and
: strokes I've tried in it seem to work better and easier. I'll probably
: reserve the Eskia for really demanding conditions, but will get a lot of
: use from this Tern for short paddles on the calm river and in coastal
: areas where I don't have to put a lot of faith in unknown structural
: stress limits.

On the other hand, if you were assured of the safety, I suspet you would use the Tern even more.

: Maybe my description/tone was misleading in my original post. There is no
: doubt the boat has some baffling and serious problems, like the gap in the
: rear bulkhead and the offset foot peg racks. And it's certainly true that
: the finish is lumpy and bumpy and has many runs and that the glass job on
: the vertical freeboard butt-joints are ugly. I also have to question the
: structural integrity based on three 12-16" long areas where the edges
: of the fillet tape are exposed, although the boat shows no other signs of
: weakness. But it's far from a complete disaster. Also it is the only
: wooden kayak I've ever seen close up in person. Maybe many of them have
: blemishes and WTFs. Overall, it seems a sound boat, tracks great, handles
: great, and is much faster than my Eskia.

: Sure, it's below cosmetic and safety standards for what I'd hope to build for
: myself. But the safety issues can be rectified, and I am seeing and
: feeling the qualities of a fiberglass or kevlar hard-chine boat for less
: than half the price. That is why it makes sense to me to buy it and enjoy
: it.

If it is below safety standards, don't buy it. Period.

: I asked about refinishing strategy ideas after I'd already decided to buy
: this boat, thinking that maybe it would only take a few weekends and
: evenings to set things right (I thought if I could use heat or steam to
: lift off the shell in a reasonable amount of time, I'd be at finishing
: stage ).

Sounds like love at first sight. It is probably just as hard for us to tell you that the boat you love has serious defects as it would be to tell you that the love of your life has warts. Love blinds people. if this is the case, no on can fault you decision. Fortunately it is cheaper to trade in a boat than to get a divorce, but neither experience is easy.

: . . .Not really worried about time either, it's got to be less than
: building from scratch, but even if it ain't, I'd still enjoy piddling with
: it for the experience. I'll probably sell it and the Eskia next year and
: buy a Valley or NDK anyway.

Building from scratch would probably be faster and have fewer problems. The big reasons to refinish an older boat is if it is cheaper, (you already own it, or can acquire it dirt cheap) or if the repairs would be considered "standard maintenance". They say that a boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into. This just sounds like you'll be starting with a deeper hole in the water.

: If it's any consolation, I do plan to build my own boat, and I hope not just
: one. I want very badly to do that. But I just don't have the dedicated
: workspace to do it like it needs to be done right now. So maybe I likewise
: don't have the space to refinish properly either.

That is true. If you have the space to refinish this you have the sapce to build a new boat. aboriginal builders did not start their boats by building garages to work in. they jsut built the boat, with the amterials at hand, on the beaches where they intended to launch the things. It really is not much more complicated now, except that we prefer to have electric power for our powertools.

:What the heck, I'm just
: going to enjoy this boat, and plan one day to build my own. At least I
: won't feel so bad when I scratch it on the inevitable oyster rock.

Now that's certainly true

: If I do decide to attempt a refinish at some point, and if it works out, I'll
: post back and record what I've done with pics. Even it it goes awry, maybe
: pics of process would still help another stricken soul down the road!

: If anyone here still thinks I should not pay $900 for the boat, speak up and
: say why. I'm still in "test" mode and although I've said I woud
: buy it, I have not actually turned over the money yet. Considering that
: I'm not going to build one at this point, is it or is it not a good price
: for the qualities of the boat in question--a model many of you apparently
: own.

It is not a good price. You'll add about $150 to $200 more in materials to get it to the point of looking like a used version of a $700 kit. Assuming you "pay" yourself nothing for your time, a top price should not be any higher than $600-$700, and without looking at this I would not be sure it could command such a price. Several people have suggested prices around $400. Tack on $200 for materials and you have a $600 boat, but you'll have spent as much time on it as it would take to build a kit from scratch.

Go for the kit. It has clear instructions and all the materials are there. Assembly goes quickly, and in a weekend or two you'll have a hull ready to be fiberglassed. It will take you that long to strip the fiberglass off the old boat. If you do a good job you na sell it for MORE than the $900 being asked for this boat, and that can finance your next building projects.

Just my thoughts.

PGJ