Jeez,
Need a bigger grandstand. This one is going to break from leeg's fermented pumpernickel and cheese diet. I am going for my barf bag.

oh hell, you really shouldn't have responded. I'm guessing you have a
: connection to CLC just as I did three and a half yrs ago when I rose to
: CLCs defense on this board on various threads.
: Why testing is important,,the Yare and flat water is not a foundation for
: developing good designs, it was a foundation for enthusiasm in building
: kayaks. Nothing wrong with that, but folks paddling a Chinnook 15 yrs ago
: are way beyond the sophistication of a Yare. Chinnooks aren't around and
: neither is the Yare and although rec. kayaks are the bulk of
: "kayak" sales it's delusional to think it's possible for glossy
: ads and marketing hype to replace actual experience in sea kayaks to
: design sea kayaks.
: The NBxl? it was in production for over a year and there was no demo model.
: The customers were building it but no one at CLC knew how it paddled
: because there wasn't one in the shop. Maybe someones cousin in the next
: county had one and said "it's great". But no one there had
: paddled one or built one for over a years production. Even with Derek
: Hutchinson giving a thumbs down (I was paddling with him,,where were you?)
: it took a year to do something. Something was not changing the design.
: Ironically I sold my Northbay around the same time that first demo NBxl
: was paddled so I was kind of Northbay obsessed,,"why does a bigger
: hull have the pivot point so far forward compared to the standard? why
: does the NBxl have good 'secondary' and the standard NB have none? why is
: the small cockpit keyhole shaped where a small cockpit eliminates the need
: for intruding thigh braces?, a keyhole is for a longer coaming?" It's
: the sort of mind chatter one goes through while enjoying the magic of
: being a boat amongst waves, rocks, seaweed,seals, otters and the ocean.
: Where if you aren't 'there' you could be an accident report. There's no
: ocean here so the focus goes to the boat. Hey,,success invites analysis
: and lack of a stimulating water surface makes for a LOT of analysis.
: Ok,,how did that happen? It wasn't tested,hell it wasn't even built or
: paddled. Kind of like that Patuxent 17 I made nearly 9yrs ago that became
: a submarine in waves because the STERN had more volume than the bow. Why?
: no idea, but given the names of the rivers around here one will find flat
: protected water so that seems a reasonable design for these conditions.
: But the interesting thing about the NBxl was that it's severity of it's
: weathercocking was a consequence of greater v in the bow than the stern to
: a degree that was substantially different than the original
: Northbay,,oops, bow digs, stern slides, nearly impossible to controll in
: winds above 15mph.

: I won't get into the Paxs other than to say I built the first one and was
: there when decisions were made to market it. If you were a strong paddler
: who could only build one kayak because of developing epoxy sensitivities
: and that Pax18 was the ONLY kayak you would build wouldn't it piss you off
: to know it's based on no experience in racing kayaks? None, zip, nada.
: Being a leader doesn't mean you can take advantage of a momentum of sales
: to justify goofy designs. Leaving in a forming bulkhead is goofy. Putting
: Beckson hatches into inacessible front bulkheads is goofy. You only get a
: few goofs before folks notice.

: You don't get to stay being a leader by ignoring customers or
: employees,,sorry, that's life. Steerage issues crop up in a lot of CLC
: designs,,why? well they're primarily tested in the garage and not on the
: water. If you paddle with other people you deal with "steerage
: issues" so that you don't run into each other. It's embarassing to
: paddle with folks and not be able to go in a straight line.
: Look at the sail rig,,a feathercraftII rudder is still recommended even
: though it's inadequate, that's a steerage issue.

: Making a skeg kit available when customers comment on "moderate
: weathercocking" doesn't address why the Chesapeake is fairly
: unresponsive to compensating with paddler skill,what I'm describing is
: different than "tracks well". If you want to discern what I'm
: talking about go paddle a CD Scirocco or Necky Looksha Sport, both very
: different designs but both illustrate a very basic attribute of going
: straight while paddling level and turning with a lean. Then paddle the
: Chesapeake,,,or other "hard-chine" s&g designs. It's ok for an
: all around "sea kayak" to have moderate weathercocking but it's
: less tolerable if it can't be corrected easily with paddler skill. If no
: one at CLC in a decision making capacity has built a non clc kayak,
: paddled in coastal conditions or gone camping with their kayaks don't you
: think that could affect the ability to "lead" an industry? Or
: notice that a forming bulkhead left in 40" back from the bow could be
: just plain wrong. There, I said it, wrong, wrong, wrong.

: Adding deck glass and hatch reinforcements to a 5yr old design like the
: Chesapeake doesn't address WHY the deck was designed to break during a
: rescue for the size of paddler the kayak was designed for, a 225lb-275lb
: paddler in the Ch17,18. Why? it wasn't tested adequately. I was there with
: CLCs staff on the Severn River 3 1/2yrs ago teaching basic rescues with
: those original designs when two aft decks broke, four hatches broke and
: the unglassed decks were cracking everywhere regular stresses were applied
: as one would experience in flat water rescue practice. What do you think
: CLC learned from that experience? hire less experienced paddlers as
: employees.
: The Pax18 has a skeg as part of the kit,,it doesn't weathercock one bit, it's
: nearly straight keeled,,what's the skeg for? It's a nice design of skeg,
: it would make a good replacement for the one used on the CHesapeakes, but
: it's a waste of labor and materials,,putting a skeg on a hard to turn
: kayak that doesn't weathercock? YOu would have thought that would teach
: someone something about testing a design that is at the limits of ones
: experience and bringing the target customer into a testing process.
: The Sassafras canoes? wouldn't you think having the experience of having a
: national canoe magazine send the Sass16 back and not include it in the
: Aug. '02 issue with other 'family canoes under $1200' because it wouldn't
: even make the grade would be an eye opener to the need for adequate
: pre-production testing? Like the Chesapeakes the Sass16 was a 3yr old
: design. And it had funky steerage like an innertube. Something I didn't
: know until I went paddling with a fellow on a freezing November day who
: knew canoes. The Sass14 canoe? Marketed as a tandem canoe for 100lb
: paddlers,,what?, such an animal doesn't exist anywhere, it actually was a
: nice handling solo canoe when made out of 6mm ply. So what did CLC do? The
: production version was changed to 4mm, so while the 6mm demo version was
: going around to shows the 4mm version was in the customers hands,,and the
: bottom panels flexed like a cheap plastic canoe with 200lbs in it, as well
: as the simple fact that the change to 4mm changed the shape of the hull
: enough to have funky tracking. So what did CLC learn from this? No idea
: but they don't advertise thes Sassafras in canoe magazines. The Sass14 in
: a solo configuration and 6mm is nice. Did you paddle the 4mm version? What
: was your experience at demos when two 150lb people tried to paddle the
: sass14?
: So back to the WR18,,it really does have nice handling,,I have no idea how it
: does in wind/waves. Leaving in a forming bulkhead is goofy though.
: Regarding your characterizing my credibility as waning I wonder what happened
: between now and 16months ago when my endorsement for the Sport Tandem
: showed up on the website without my permission or knowledge until I saw it
: on the website and flyers.."Local sea kayak instructor Lee Gardner
: says..." when I was known to be pain in the butt about sending out
: untested designs. Come on. The game is up. If you want me to be a booster
: of CLC you've run out of opportunities. How about when the West River 16
: is made you take the local folks from CPA out to Assateague,,WITH other
: s&g designs and actually deal with the environment that the folks on this
: board understand.