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Re: The Long Boat Myth
By:Kudzu
Date: 6/10/2009, 1:40 pm
In Response To: Re: The Long Boat Myth (Ken Brunton)

: Great work, and you make some excellent points.

Thank you. It was done to satisfy my curiosity and I admit I was a bit surprised at the results. Not what I expected but it was close to what a designer I respect was saying (and didn't sound right to me).

: My feeling is that at around 3mph most boats are pretty close in effort. It's
: the shape of the effort/speed curve as you get faster that makes the
: difference.

I think "seat of your pants" feeling your right. Most anyone with a little experience can maintain 3 mph for hour or more. So most people probably don't feel much difference at those speeds from boat to boat.

The numbers tell something different though. The chart is deceiving if you don't look really close. It's more revealing to see the hard numbers I made the graph from. It's really hard to translate all this to something practical and the following was the best way I have to relate to the numbers. I pulled the figures for 2 lbs resistance (same amount of effort regardless of the paddler) and compared the hull speeds.

"At 2 lbs. of resistance the 15' boat is approximately .4 mph faster than the 21' boat. Meaning if you paddled for 2 hours that would put you almost a mile further down the river for the same amount of effort."

I think the speeds were around 3.4 mph up to 3.8? Don't quote me on that. A little faster than your talking about and yes the difference gets smaller as you go slower.

The 15' Curlew I finished a couple of months ago I concentrated on minimized resistance at these lower speeds when I designed it. Paddling by myself I don't notice any difference. But paddling with the group I can tell I am not working nearly as hard as I was in my other boat. I can comfortably stay with the guys I was working to stay up with before. I can also tell that it's slower in that rare sprint we do, but I have no problem with that. So in this case, the difference is very noticeable for me at these slower speeds.

Messages In This Thread

Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF *Pic*
Michael Collins -- 6/8/2009, 11:10 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Aaron H -- 6/9/2009, 3:36 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Michael Collins -- 6/9/2009, 10:39 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Aaron H -- 6/10/2009, 6:11 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Brian Scaborough -- 6/10/2009, 10:21 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
John D. -- 6/10/2009, 3:02 pm
The Long Boat Myth *LINK* *Pic*
Kudzu -- 6/9/2009, 7:43 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Mike Savage -- 6/11/2009, 7:01 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Johne -- 6/11/2009, 12:08 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Michael -- 6/11/2009, 10:23 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth *Pic*
Allan -- 6/11/2009, 3:54 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Bill Hamm -- 6/11/2009, 9:50 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/11/2009, 11:56 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Michael Collins -- 6/11/2009, 1:58 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/11/2009, 5:33 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Bill Hamm -- 6/13/2009, 1:23 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Terry Haines -- 6/18/2009, 11:45 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Bill Hamm -- 6/19/2009, 11:39 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
John F Monroe -- 6/24/2009, 5:42 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Terry Haines -- 6/19/2009, 6:33 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Bill Hamm -- 6/11/2009, 1:26 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/11/2009, 7:42 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Allan -- 6/11/2009, 8:02 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/11/2009, 9:19 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
West -- 6/11/2009, 4:23 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Allan -- 6/11/2009, 7:45 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Ken Brunton -- 6/10/2009, 11:13 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/10/2009, 1:40 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Michael Collins -- 6/10/2009, 2:16 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/10/2009, 7:52 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Bill Hamm -- 6/10/2009, 3:44 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Michael Collins -- 6/9/2009, 10:26 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/10/2009, 8:33 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 6/10/2009, 8:49 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/10/2009, 1:08 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 6/11/2009, 10:35 am
Hey Nick
Kudzu -- 6/12/2009, 10:18 am
Single change??
Allan -- 6/12/2009, 6:47 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/11/2009, 12:04 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Glen Smith -- 6/9/2009, 8:16 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/10/2009, 8:17 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 6/10/2009, 8:57 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Bill Hamm -- 6/9/2009, 1:15 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Brian Scaborough -- 6/9/2009, 8:32 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
wwfloyd -- 6/10/2009, 7:47 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Bill Hamm -- 6/11/2009, 1:00 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF *LINK* *Pic*
Tom Yost -- 6/9/2009, 10:24 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Bill Hamm -- 6/9/2009, 8:28 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Tom Yost -- 6/10/2009, 12:41 am
LMAO!
Robert N Pruden -- 6/9/2009, 2:43 pm
Re: LMAO! *Pic*
Tom Yost -- 6/9/2009, 6:13 pm
Re: LMAO!
Bill Hamm -- 6/9/2009, 8:30 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Brian Scaborough -- 6/9/2009, 10:40 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Michael Collins -- 6/9/2009, 11:11 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Brian Scaborough -- 6/10/2009, 1:00 pm
Balancing Gear
Michael Collins -- 6/10/2009, 2:01 pm
Re: Balancing Gear
Bill Hamm -- 6/10/2009, 3:40 pm
Re: Balancing Gear *LINK*
Brian Scaborough -- 6/10/2009, 2:27 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF *Pic*
Tom Yost -- 6/9/2009, 11:01 am
I've done that, too, but only with the Guinness.
Robert N Pruden -- 6/9/2009, 2:46 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Brian Scarborough -- 6/9/2009, 12:00 am
Rider, Ranger?
Michael Collins -- 6/9/2009, 11:07 pm
Re: Rider, Ranger?
Bill Hamm -- 6/10/2009, 2:27 am