: If not that, then look for an Ally foldable canoe. The picture
: below is from their web page www.allycanoes.com/canoemodels.htm.
: They make an aluminum-framed collapsible canoe. Thought you might
: want to browse their site for some ideas to incorporate in your
: construction.From this top-view you can easily see the placement
: of the middle and end thwarts, and how the seats are used as
: intermediate thwarts. You can also see how the bottom is
: composed of 5 stringers or chines, with the center one being the
: keel, or keelson, since it is inside the boat and not outside
: like a true keel. Forgive me if I use the terms interchangeably.
: It appears to be the same diameter as the rest of the floor
: stringers, which are bent to give the bottom its form and width.

: There are some people who favor using stringers which are NOT bent
: like this, but which run parallel to the keel. Closest to the
: center of the boat you have floor stringers which are long,
: while near the middle of the boat you have shorter stringers.
: These shorter stringers start and end at ribs. I' not sure which
: design I like better, but most Ive seen are like on the Ally.

: When you go to their webpage you can get a good look at the side
: view of their boats. You can plainly see that there is just one
: center chine in the sidewalls, between the floor chines and the
: gunwales. They list the sidewall height as 14 inches, so this
: means they have about 7 inches of fabric on either side of this
: support. The 5 chines in the floor divide it into 4 areas which
: are about 8" wide at the center, and taper to smaller
: widths towards the ends. That seems to be a pretty safe span of
: fabric support.

: According to the catalog blurb, these boats have sliding seats, but
: I can't determine from these pictures how they mount them. It
: appears from the photos that the back tube of the seats is
: aligned over ribs #2 and #5. Counting from left to right you can
: (just barely) see the 7 ribs. The center rib is directly under
: the center thwart.

Ahh, these are familiar! The canoe which I first referred to in the Lars Monsen program was a green folding Ally. There were some close-up shots of him setting it up too. The seat runs up and down the keel pole like a track, almost like a monorail. They have a built in clamp or locking mechanism to hold it in position. Another interesting feature is how the ribs are inserted. You have to "tap" them into place to stretch the skin, just like the building a birchbark canoe. I was going to do something similar with wood until I discovered Toms site and the HDPE ribs.

: Score one for forest products :)

: If you want some ideas in this regard, wait for a few "war
: stories" from some of the others on this board. I think
: your biggest concern with a home designed boat is making the
: parts too small to support the weight you cram into it. There is
: a tendency to build the first boat too heavy for fear of this.
: Or, to build it too light because the idea was to have a very
: lightweight pack. Like Goldilocks who (in the home of the three
: bears) tried first one that was too big, then one which was too
: small, and finally found one that was just right--you may have
: to build three boats to get what you want. Welcome to the
: addiction of boatbuilding.

I suspect I may end up in the "too small" category. I really want this boat to be as light and portable as possible. I have two weeks away (1 in France, the other in Sweeden) planed later this summer. We plan to do some wild camping in hammocks, a bit of fishing and hopefully some canoeing too. So the canoe needs to be light enough to carry between 2 (along with a weeks worth of camping gear) yet also strong enough to carry 2 (along with a weeks worth of camping gear).

: See, now you are starting to talk like a boat-building addict.
: "Stocking up" is code for "I've got another boat
: project in mind"

Haha! You got me. A friend of mine has asked me to make one for him too should mine work out. Then theres my uncle, who is a ghillie on the river Tweed in Scotland. I called him when I first decided to look into buying one and he's put an order in too. On the up-side, I plan to give them the 1st and 2nd boats I build, leaving me with the boat that is "just right" (in the words of Goldilocks).

: The North House Folk School in Minnesota www.northhouse.org has an
: annual class in birchbark canoe building. The first week is
: devoted to finding and preparing materials. The second week is
: spent building a boat, which is either sold or raffled off to
: one of the class members. If you want to spend a 2 week vacation
: in the US next year c'mon over. Check out their "earn and
: learn" program, where you get a credit of one day's tuition
: ($65 value) for each day you volunteer to help in a course. For
: example, you might work 5 days helping others build kayaks and
: then take a class on canoe construction. It would cut your
: vacation costs and allow you to spend more time in Minnesota.
: see the next post for a picture from their website.

It would be fantastic to build one myself. They have courses similar to that over here too. I think they import the bark from Russia (off the top of my head). I've even heard of a rubbery ply-wood that has very similar qualities to birchbark. You can order this from one of the UK bushcraft websites by the meter. I'm getting ahead of myself, I need to build a simple canoe and learn to paddle before I attempt to build "the finest craft built by man" (- Ray Mears).

: I have no personal experience with this. Nor have I seen it done in
: any skin-on-frame boat I've looked at. I would advise against a
: loose second skin rubbing against the primary skin on one side
: and the ribs and chines on the other. You would get grit between
: the layers and it would act like sandpaper. I would be in favor
: of building up glued-on patches of extra material in areas where
: wear is shown after a dozen outings, or sooner. Ally mentions
: that their floors are lined with a foam pad. If you go with
: foam, glue it in place, anticipate the extra weight, and take a
: look at the huge pack that Ally has for their boat!

I was thinking of combining my foam sleeping mat with the floor for the hull. Since I will be carrying it anyway I figured it could double up as both.

: http://webzoom.freewebs.com/allycanoes/Man%20&%20ally%20canoe%20backpack.jpg

: If that doesn't scare ya. . .

That pack makes him look like a small boy!

: PGJ

Ben