: I know this is hardly building related but there seems little
: action in other parts of the forum.
: When (a long time aqgo) I was a strip of a lad, I built a couple of
: SOF boats and did a load of white water (river) kayaking.
: I was taught back then to roll by leaning forewards over the deck
: and sweeping the paddle from the bow.
: Since I have been on the forum, I have never seen reference to
: anything other than layback rolling.
: I know that you guys are all pretty laid back but is the lay back
: method so much better (don't say ask the wife!)
: Should I be trying this method against what I am used to (45 years
: ago). I may be old but I'll try anything once.
: What are the pros and cons?
: Les C

I too learned a C to C roll, from whitewater paddling. So I have my bias.

When you're upside down, for a C to C roll, you set-up with you nose to the deck and paddle at the water surface,

sweep paddle and body out to 90˚, then thrust straight down on the paddle,

spin the boat upward (like rolling a log) using your hips/knee contact with the boat, this rolling boat momentum helps pull you up

and you end by swinging your body back over the front deck with your nose to the deck again.

This starting with the nose to the deck (your body looked at from the side makes a C shape) to ending with your nose to the deck (second C) is way it's called a C to C roll.

Most men use muscle to do a C to C roll instead of remembering to bring their nose back to the deck. This means when they get tired they loose their roll.
If you learn and remember to bring your nose back to the deck at the end of the roll it should be no more difficult than a lay back roll.

The idea with the nose to the deck and the lay back is to bring your body weight as close to the center of the boat as possible so the boat will roll faster, just like
when skaters doing a spin bring their arms to their chest to increase the speed of their spin.

I feel the big advantage with the C to C roll (if you learn to do it right) is that you come up ready go right into a forward stroke and stabilize yourself.
Greenlanders have a Storm roll that is the same as a C to C roll. Why do you think they call it a "Storm" roll?

I don't plan on rolling much when I'm out paddling but I figure it's going to be pretty stormy if I'm going to need a roll. I'd rather have one roll I can count on, learn to the point that no thought is involved and be done with it. I want to paddle not roll.

Now I admit all those Greenland rolls are cool, ONCE, but unless you mean to hunt seals, you are just trying to impress chicks. I guess I'm just getting to old to get sucked up in the competitive "guy thing".

If you know all these rolls, the question is what do you do when you really get knocked over? Are you hanging upside down there thinking, "Lets see, do I go for the paddle behind the head roll, the hand roll, or the tongue roll?"

I'm sorry, forgive me, I said this was my bias. I'm trying to be a bit funny but obviously we're all here to have fun, to if rolling in a hundred ways floats you boat GREAT!

BUT you also need to know there are equipment differences implicit in choosing a roll style.

To do lay back rolls you need a low flat rear deck, many kayaks also have recessed rear cockpit coamings, which all allow you to lift you butt off the seat and lay on the stern deck. So we're talking about a low to extremely low volume kayak with a very tiny seat backrest. Certainly there are levels of boat design which make lay back rolls more or less easy. And real Greenland nuts ( I mean enthusiasts) do not wear PFDs but that big black condom they call a "tuilik" which allows them to get really next to the stern deck.

Lazy old man that I am, I like a higher volume hull with room to be comfortable and a higher backrest. I can do a C to C roll when I need to, and be comfortable paddling the rest of the time. I like to impress women by staying upright. I use a native style Aleut paddle to roll, so there's no reason you can't do a C to C roll with a Greenland stick.

Please, no seals were harmed in the conception of this posting, and I hope my Greenland rolling friends will not use me for harpoon practice.

All the best,
Rob