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Re: Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
By:Paul G. Jacobson
Date: 2/23/2011, 8:29 am

: Man; there are too many choices!

So go with one that fits you, and ignore the others--rather than trying to adapt something that does not fit you. Think of it like buying shoes. The fancy Italian ones may look great, but they are only in size 5, and you wear somewhere near size 11. Would you buy smaller shoes then cut them apaprt to get your feet into them? No? Well don't get too small a design.

: . . .It's a good problem to have
: though. I do think I'll definately stick with the wood frame
: sytle as I'm much more comfortable with that and it seems
: simpler.

There are many wood frame styles, pick *one* and stay with designs that are built in that style.

The biggest single difference in styles would be: many ribs, or few frames. Frames are generally cut out of plywood, or built up from small pieces of dimensional lumber, but they may also be steam-bent. There may be as few as 3 frames on some "build me in a day" boats, up to one-frame-per-foot on a 22' baidarka. Seven frames would be about average, though. Frames usually are "closed", and the tops of the frames support the deck. Some frames are "open" and just support the shape of the hull. Ribs are generally thin slats of solid wood which are steam-bent into shape. There are other ways to bend wood, though. Ribs tend to be placed about 3" to 6" apart, so there are a lot of them, but they are fairly quick to make. Ribs support the hull shape only. The deck is made separately. Deck supports and ribs are held together along the gunwales, or sheer. Usually holes (called "mortises") are cut into the gunwales and the ends of the ribs and the deck supports are inserted into these mortises. The ribs can be held in place with wood pegs, or other mechanical fasteners, or they can be lashed into place.

Steaming ribs is not particularly difficult, not is it difficult to set up the equipment for generating steam. But it may be a challenge to find good wood to be used for the ribs. Sometimes it depends on where you live, and what species are available. You may find it easiest to use green (freshly cut, never dried) wood or airdried wood which has been soaked for a few days. Kiln-dried wood is available everywhere, but can sometimes give poor results when steamed--which can be frustrating to someone who is trying to learn the process. Some designs originated becaase of the availability of certain materials. If those materials are not available, or cannot be changed, then look at another design. Fortunately we can use woven-fiber fabrics instead of walrus skins for the hull coverings, and wood instead of bone for ribs.

Another major difference in styles would be whether the sides of the boat are straight, or rounded. The terms for this would be single chine (hard chine) or multi chine. The "Chines" meantioned are the straight pieces of thin wood which run the length of the boat. Depending of the designer's choice of words they are sometimes called stringers or longerons. Sometimes the word "chine" is a reference to the position of one of these strips, and not the strip itself. If the boat has a straight side wall connecting the deck with the bottom of the hull, Then it is most likely a "hard chine" design. It is a misnomer to call any of these bosts "single" chine boats as they really have two chine strips--one on each side. If the boat has one or more stringer on the sidewall it would be a multi-chine design. Usually the use of multiple chines on the side of a frame-based kayak would be to give added roundness to the hull shape, but sometimes the sides are straight and the multiple chines are simply thinner and closely spaced to give added support to the skin, and share the load from displacement and waterpressure. Boats with ribs tend to have rounded hulls, with stringers attached at fairly close intervals to support the skin. By the simplest of definitions they are almost all considered to be multichined boats.

A third design difference would be in how the ends of the boatare developed and hold their shape. Some designs use plywood forms which are cut to a desired shape and used as attachment points for the gunwales, keel, and other stringers. This gives a knife-shaped look to the end. Some designs pull the keel strip into a curve and bend it it up to meet the gunwales. The longerons are also bent up. The boat then has a pointy end. Baidarkas have their own distinctive bifurcated bows and triangular-framed sterns.

4th design element: Strong keel, or week keel. Actually few kayaks actually have keels, which would be on the outside of the boat. The part running along the center of the boat, on the inside would be called the "keelson" on other boat designs, and the external keel would be attached to the keelson. On SOF, boats until the skin is applied that strip is on the outside of the ribs or building frames, so it gets called the keel, keel chine or keel strip. Some designers use thick wood for the keel and it is a major structural part of the boat. Others use thin keel strips, and the gunwales carry most of the structural loads. On the one Percy Blandford folding-kayak design I built, the keel and ladder-style floor was a major, time-consuming construction project and not just a single strip.

5th design element is one you can easily change yourself: Cockpit coaming shape and size. Don't get too concerned with the coaming size or shape you see on design drawings. This is one of the easiest things to change, and one of the big reasons people build their own boats is so they CAN change these things. If you pick a boat design because you like the coaming shape, or discard an idea because you do not like the coaming, well that is like buying shoes based on the color of the laces. Get the right fit, and buy laces that you like later. The same reasoning would apply to deckline layouts, and seats.

: I'm kind of fond of the Sea Tour 15R. Any idea how much
: I'd have to raise the gunnel and deck ridge to have it fit my
: 260 lb bod?

An inch to 1.5 inches would probably do. But why? Displacement is a factor of three dimensions: Length, width, and depth. When you raise the height of the sides you are automatically assuming that you will be sinking deeper into the water. Do you really want to do that? It increases drag, you need to launch in slightly deeper water, (which is usually further from shore, which means more of your leg gets wet) and you'll scrape the bottom in shallow areas. While it may increase initial instability, that is not always the case. Usually the builder's choice is to get greater displacement by going for greater length. In theory, longer boats have a higher top speed. (but you need to paddle fast to achieve that) If you like the looks of the Sea Tour 15R, look at the 17 foot version. With added length you decrease the depth and the drag at the same time. That makes for easier paddling, launching, and upkeep. It is rare that the added couple of feet cause storage problems. Boats over 18' can run into problems on ferries, or with registration in some states. Commercial companies building plastic boats tend to address the problem of large paddlers with high sidewalls (so they go deeper) and greater width. Both of these factors increase drag. Would you rather jog in rubber galoshes or Nike running shoes?

: If I don't choose this model, then I'll probably go
: with the EXP version, but since after next winter I'll have a
: large volume boat in the North Star, I'd like to build something
: a bit different if feasable.

The expedition versions already have higher decks, and you can check the table of offsets to see it the wall height is higher on the middle forms. This may save you from doing any changes to the 15R info.

Good luck in chosing a particular model. There are many. Spend your time on examining them now, instead of spending money, and wasting time, later on. You can get plans and offsets for almost any boat by mail in a couple of days, or get them immediately online. When you narrow your search to 3 designs see if you can find others who are near you who may have built that model. You may be able to negotiate a test paddle to see if you like it. And you may get some helpful comments on any tricky areas in the building process.

PGJ

Messages In This Thread

Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
Todd O -- 2/22/2011, 1:00 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
David Bynoe -- 2/22/2011, 1:48 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
Todd O -- 2/22/2011, 2:39 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
Bill Hamm -- 2/22/2011, 3:47 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
Paul G. Jacobson -- 2/22/2011, 2:23 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
Dave Gentry -- 2/22/2011, 6:32 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
Todd O -- 2/22/2011, 8:30 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
Todd O -- 2/22/2011, 10:35 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
Dan -- 2/23/2011, 5:33 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
Paul G. Jacobson -- 2/23/2011, 8:29 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
Dan -- 2/23/2011, 5:51 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
Kudzu / Jeff Horton -- 2/22/2011, 8:12 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Help choosing kayak design
Mark Seilis -- 2/22/2011, 10:50 pm