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Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
By:Rob Macks/Laughing Loon CC&K
Date: 3/22/2012, 1:52 pm
In Response To: Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS? (Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks)

: I guess that is part of my point. We have both worked out complete
: systems that work together as a whole.

Yes.

And if you read my web page on "Transparent Lay-ups" you will have all the same
information I provide in my instruction book to understand how I work with epoxy.

However, I believe my information provides much more than the, " step one, .... two, ....three"
of a system.

As teachers we need to consider what we do, so we can convey information
clearly to students. I'm sure we can agree, our desire, is their success.

I state on my web page and book, the information provided is my experience of
what has worked consistently for me. I explain my bias for other tools and techniques.

I am confident few people follow my suggestions to the letter.
However, I am also confident if they follow some of my suggestions
they will be more successful.

It is not my intent come across as saying, "It's my way or the highway".
I do have very clear ideas about the importance of guiding concepts to
reduce work and ensure success.

Changing one or more
: small point here or there may have unexpected results.

I agree, if all that is provided are, "step one, .... two, .... three,
then yes, changing one step is going to present a problem
which could frustrate a novice builder.

: It is very hard for us, even after years of experience to know what
: the critical points of the system really are.

Here is where we diverge. I lack your charm. I don't waste a lot of words.
I'm providing instructions on how to get the job done so the focus can be
on creative choices.

In your charming generous way, you say, "try different things, see how they work for you."
I know you are genuinely sincere and trying to be helpful. I find the information in your books
hard to follow, you try to be all inclusive and write in talkative rambling style.
This is one way of working.

My concern is this way is prone to pitfalls for the novice.

I know exactly what the critical points of the system are.
The information I provide deals with these concepts of how epoxy works. Such as:

Epoxy is syrup consistency which is thicker (higher viscosity) in colder temperatures
and thinner (lower viscosity) in warmer temperatures. Knowing this is useful to dealing
with wet-out of fiberglass and elimination of trapped air.

Epoxy thickens from the moment hardener is introduced, so small batches 6 oz. keep
resin the thinnest for best wet-out, air elimination, and long working time.

And so on, emphasizing concepts to guide work, so "critical points" are known, which
will arm you with the knowledge to deal with any problems created by unknown, or known variables.

:BTW System III recommends their "Clear Coat" for "wetting out of fiberglass cloth for bright finished boats".

I used "Clear Coat" for a number of years. It was like working with water, so thin I had trouble filling the spaces
between fibers in the "open weave" fiberglass I used. Plus it cost more and was only good for glass wet-out.
I suggest using it for builders who cannot control their shop temperature and choose to work in low temperatures.

I control my shop temperatures carefully so I can achieve a very low viscosity with System Three general purpose resin
and slow hardener.

Again, the information I provide explains "critical points" to give builders an idea of what to expect if they can or can not
control things like temperature.

Armed with those concepts, those "critical points" you can choose to work with roller, brush, or squeegee and understand
what is happening.

Rob

I hear, I forget, I see, I remember, I do, I understand.

Confucius

Messages In This Thread

Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Rob Macks/Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/21/2012, 9:53 am
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Malcolm Schweizer -- 3/21/2012, 10:09 am
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 3/21/2012, 2:27 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Bill Hamm -- 3/21/2012, 3:20 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Rob Macks/Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/21/2012, 4:40 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS? *PIC*
Scott Fitzgerrell -- 3/21/2012, 8:08 pm
Nice work Scott! *NM*
Rob Macks/Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/21/2012, 8:20 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Kirk Fredericks -- 3/21/2012, 10:06 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Bill Hamm -- 3/22/2012, 1:29 am
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 3/22/2012, 11:09 am
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Rob Macks/Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/22/2012, 1:52 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Mike Bielski -- 3/23/2012, 9:01 am
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Rob Macks/Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/23/2012, 2:00 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Kirk Fredericks -- 3/23/2012, 3:25 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Robert N Pruden -- 3/26/2012, 3:22 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
John Abercrombie -- 3/23/2012, 4:53 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 3/24/2012, 9:05 am
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Etienne Muller -- 3/24/2012, 9:31 am
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Rob Macks/Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/24/2012, 10:30 am
CALLING CAPTAIN KIRK!
Rob Macks/Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/24/2012, 10:47 am
Re: CALLING CAPTAIN KIRK!
Kirk Fredericks -- 3/24/2012, 3:52 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
John Abercrombie -- 3/24/2012, 12:24 pm
Re: Propane Torch
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 3/24/2012, 6:07 pm
Re: Propane Torch
Etienne Muller -- 3/24/2012, 8:21 pm
Re: Propane Torch
Rob Macks/Laughing Loon CC&K -- 3/25/2012, 11:42 am
Re: Propane Torch
george jung -- 3/25/2012, 12:00 pm
I have to share a story that is related to this...
Robert N Pruden -- 3/26/2012, 3:46 pm
Re: I have to share a story that is related to thi
Kirk Fredericks -- 3/26/2012, 8:06 pm
Re: I have to share a story that is related to thi
Robert N Pruden -- 3/26/2012, 8:57 pm
Re: I have to share a story that is related to thi
Bill Hamm -- 3/27/2012, 1:52 am
Re: I have to share a story that is related to thi
ancient kayaker -- 3/30/2012, 9:43 am
Re: I have to share a story that is related to thi
Bill Hamm -- 4/1/2012, 3:07 am
Re: I have to share a story that is related to thi
Etienne Muller -- 3/27/2012, 3:24 am
Re: I have to share a story that is related to thi
ancient kayaker -- 3/29/2012, 11:57 pm
Re: I have to share a story that is related to thi
Etienne Muller -- 3/30/2012, 3:20 am
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
jack kantz -- 3/23/2012, 8:24 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Jay Babina -- 3/23/2012, 8:35 am
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Dwight Lynn -- 3/21/2012, 3:54 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Dwight Lynn -- 3/21/2012, 3:58 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Robert N Pruden -- 3/21/2012, 7:09 pm
Re: Epoxy: Did I Get a Bad Batch of MAS?
Bill Hamm -- 3/22/2012, 1:42 am