: I would suspect that a lot of the white wood is spruce and I agree that if at
: all possible use the spruce. Structurely, it is the very best wood for
: building stripper boats and is also the easiest to glue. You don't see
: people using cedar or redwood to build planes do you?

No, but, I haven't seen too many 1,500 - 3,000 lb. kayaks that are pulling 4 to 6 G's either. :)

I think that it is
: testimony to the strength of stripper wood / composite shell construction
: that it is possible to get away with using redwood for kayak construction.
: Even the very best old-growth redwood is weak and soft and splits easily.
: To my knowledge, redwood was never used for traditional boat construction
: even where it was plentiful. It is gorgeous stuff, however. On another
: site about guitar construction one of the makers was saying that he
: charged 20% extra for guitars with redwood tops because it took so much
: more care not to ding redwood during construction.

Unless those were Electric guitars, that man was making a killing on some very poor sounding instruments. Redwoods softness would make an extremely Poor sounding board.

BTW, old growth spruce
: is not stronger and lighter than second growth. It is stronger but it is
: more dense and therefore heavier because it has a greater proportion of
: latewood. As a rule of thumb, the more annual rings softwoods have per
: inch, the stronger per unit weight they are. Hardwoods are just the
: opposite, the fewer annual rings per inch, the stronger per unit weight.

: Smiley Shields

Just a little Rehdwood/constructive critisizm. No harm intended. Some very good points made.

However: If all being equal, Both kiln dried, cut, milled, and encased in fibreglass, I believe the differences would be close to negligable. When kiln dried, both are proned to splinter, but, redwood is more forgiving. Redwood would also have the edge in using fasteners such as nails and screws as the hardwoods are much more proned to split than the soft. I believe redwood would also be better suited to glueup. The Titebond and II and others of that nature work off of capilary action. The deeper they absorb into the wood, the stronger the bond. Green (wet) redwood may be harder to glue up because of the moisture and the chemical content of the wood. The spruce is superior in actual strength. Both are basically there as a filler between the glass layers. So, is their difference in fiber strength that much of a difference in the total strength of the layup? Again, in the scheme of things, probably negligable. And when you are fairing your boat, you may be thankful you used redwood over spruce. 10 times easier to work. Although that is probably one of the major drawbacks of using redwood. It can be too easy to work.

I agree, spruce is probably the strongest wood and therefore, maybe the best, but, is all that really neccessary. Maybe a little overkill.

I can't speak for other areas as I know not what spruce is like elsewhere, but, here, most of what you get is pricy and Kiln dried. I haven't seen much green spruce, maybe none. So, if you are comparing kiln dried spruce to green redwood, or air dried, you are 100% correct. But, if the redwood is kiln dried as well, I don't think it will prove out to be as heavy. It's a much more opened grain, less dense and therefore should be lighter. I worked in redwood for a few years, here in Redwood Country, and the kiln dried stuff we used was as light or lighter than the average pine. But, again, that will vary with the actual % of moisture left in the wood. All kiln dried woods, if left in the open air will pick up moisture from that air over a period of time.

I think my point in all of this is: If I were going to build a boat using redwood, I'd stick with kiln-dried stock. If I were to build a boat all things being considered, I'd build it out of soft woods, not because I think they are better, but, because I think the hardwoods are "overkill" for this type of craft, and method of layup. ( speaking of strippers ) S o F would be a different story.

Just a differing opinion. :)

Rehd :)